Victim 2 Victor: Empowering Survivors with Anu Verma

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (00:00)
Welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now, the podcast where we dive deep into the moments of transformation, the times when not yet shifts into right now and everything changes. I'm your host, Jen Ginty and this podcast is all about those pivotal moments in our life journeys. You know the ones, when the hesitation fades, when we take that first step, even if it feels like a leap. It's in these moments that growth and healing begins. Each episode will explore stories of resilience,

moments of clarity, and the sparks that ignite real change. From personal experiences to expert insights, we'll uncover how people navigate the complex journey we call life and come out stronger on the other side. Whether you're searching for that spark in your own life or just curious about how change unfolds for others, you're in the right place. We'll discuss the ups and downs, the breakthroughs and setbacks, and how to embrace the right now, even when it feels out of reach. Because sometimes,

The hardest part of the journey is realizing that the moment you've been waiting for has already arrived. So take a deep breath, settle in, and let's get started.

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (01:10)
This episode contains conversations about rape, sexual abuse, and domestic violence. These topics may be activating or distressing for some listeners. Please take care of yourself while listening.

Jen (01:23)
welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now. I'm here today with an amazing guest and I'm going to introduce her. Anu Verma is the powerful force behind Victim to Victor.

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and domestic trauma, Anu transformed her own journey through PTSD, an identity crisis, and profound depression into a beacon of hope. Once teetering on the edge of suicide, she emerged to become an author, podcaster, trauma therapist, and now a screenwriter. Through Victim to Victor, Anu creates a supportive sanctuary for survivors to heal and build healthy relationships.

guiding them towards acceptance, processing, and liberation from their pain so they can rediscover happiness. Her compelling story has been featured across podcasts and media, inspiring countless individuals to rise above their adversities. Welcome, welcome.

Anu Verma (02:21)
⁓ hello, so great to be here.

Jen (02:24)
Yeah, I'm so happy

that you joined us. So let's jump into it. What is your origin story?

Anu Verma (02:31)
Wow, so it started when I was only three years old and I experienced some childhood sexual abuse and it lasted quite a few years. the thing about my story is the fact that it was like the memory only started coming back three decades later. So it was literally in my thirties where I started to get flashbacks and started to like get the PTSD.

like symptoms of where I could actually smell my abuser. And it really disturbed ⁓ my whole life. It not only disturbed my relationships with people, but it just really impacted on my mental health. And I went into a severe state of depression because then I just felt dirty and I blamed myself thinking it was all my fault.

So there was so much shame, so much guilt, self blame. And it really did impact me. And I just felt like I was isolated a lot of my life anyway. And again, that was all a consequence of what happened to me as a little child. And yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? When you just think that, you you've lived your whole life.

not knowing who you truly are because your whole world view just gets shaken at such a young age, you know, where your whole innocence just gets taken away from you. And I do always wonder what my life would be like if that hadn't have happened. But then I also am thinking, well, I wouldn't be where I am today helping so many other survivors, overcome their own traumas. So obviously, things happen for a reason. And something else which I found really interesting was

the fact that we enter this trauma cycle because, our self-worth is at rock bottom. we don't think highly of ourselves and that impacts all areas of our life. So not only did it impact my career and, you my ability to hold jobs, but I found like that, I just felt like I wasn't worthy of any great positions. So I'd always go after...

you know, the jobs which I felt, would accept me and, go after low pay as well. ⁓ And then also what I found it was impacting my relationships as well, where, of course, when you're thinking so low of yourself, you're going to ultimately attract partners who see you as as low. So I was attracting real toxic partners who just abuse me even more, you know, they always

manipulated, I was controlled, I was emotionally and physically abused by some and it was just an absolute disaster and that carried on through my adulthood anyway. And then ⁓ I realised in my 30s, I've actually got a bit of a story here and then that's when I started to think about know journaling, obviously at the time I was receiving so much support through a coach, healer and therapist.

And then I started to journal and then I realised that I'd already written 70 pages and then I ⁓ spoke to a publisher to help me to actually convert that into a book. And so in my late 30s, I was then able to have this book published. then like what you're doing now, I also found podcasting to be such a fantastic way for me to heal as well because something as well that I found was because of my low self-worth,

I wasn't really confident and so I found out my throat chakra was quite blocked anyway. And podcasting seemed a very daunting experience at the time thinking, my God, I need to talk about this stuff. But the more I did it, then the more confident I started to get because, you know, my whole story just became so normalized and I was able to talk about it without getting so distressed.

And so podcasting actually helped me to heal, strange as it sounds.

Jen (06:45)
Yeah, I'm there with you. You know, between working

on, have like, I have a product that I created for mental health, a monster doll that I created for kiddos to help with their emotions. That really was part of my healing journey. So I get it. You know, having this podcast also has had me connected to people who have very similar journeys as I have. And I think that's really important. And I think we very much have

very similar stories. ⁓ We spoke about it before, but it sounds like we very much have parallel stories of our lives.

Anu Verma (07:22)
Yeah.

Amazing, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And I just find life is a constant healing journey. Because everybody keeps thinking when they see me, ⁓ you're healed, you're fine. I'm thinking, no, I still have work to do in different areas of my life. And things come up, don't they? Issues come up in relationships. And you think, whoa, that's due to my inability to trust people.

all my life again, I've been in masculine mode and I find that fascinating how we trauma survivors, we stay in our masculine because it helps to protect us and it's this kind of defense mechanism that we have where we find femininity as being vulnerable and as being very open to ⁓ people to take advantage of us. And so I find we have to, we feel like we have to remain in our masculine in order to protect ourselves.

So again, that's been fascinating because then when you're in muscular mode, where is there space for an actual man to come into your life as well? So you don't need a man.

Jen (08:35)
No, I get that. Yeah, and I never

really thought about it that way, but it's true. ⁓ There are certain parts of ourselves that we consider to be vulnerable. And society-wise, I feel like we've been taught that being feminine is being less powerful and vulnerable. And so that makes sense. And it's interesting. I want to go back to

the recovered memories part of things, just because I think that's something that a lot of listeners may have gone through when they're listening to. So my podcast is very much about these healing journeys and finding out about things about yourself, about your past that have happened to you that really put you in shock and in a state of distress, finding out these things that had happened so long ago that our brain decided to

help us to move forward by hiding memories.

Anu Verma (09:41)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely it did. And the thing is about that is that we do, know, we like things happen to us. And so what I found is, is that we'll remember some major events for my life, but we don't remember everything, you know, we might remember some special birthday or, you know, we might remember some time when somebody picked on you. And yeah, and we kind of carry that.

But then I feel like as a kind of mechanism to really help us and to protect us, you know, we'll block out the things which don't feel right to us at the time because being sexually abused as such a young aid, wouldn't feel right. But yeah, we're told by our perpetrators that it's secret and that, and that it's a game and, know, and that is something positive.

You kind of believe them and you grow up thinking, ⁓ you know, it was a game that we were playing and it was fine. Everybody does it. And then it's no wonder that, you know, when we when we're at a legal age to actually have sex, that we become nymphomaniacs because we think, ⁓ I was told that this is just a game. And I remember saying this to a few people saying, come on, it's a game. Let's have sex. And ⁓

And that's what it was for me. And then to associate sex in an intimate relationship with somebody, I'd go, ⁓ no, those two are totally separate things. And that's something that I've really had to work on. I mean, I'm still not there, because it's been ingrained into me from such a young age and for three decades. That's what I thought. So to actually unlearn that, it takes time. It will take more work.

Jen (11:12)
Huh?

Anu Verma (11:29)
And so for that, that for me is a constant learning journey because yeah, there's just, there's no, it's hard to understand the association of love and sex. So maybe that's the way that the world's going because I was reading that, you know, that this seems to be like a new way of thinking anyway for a lot of the younger people. yeah. ⁓ my goodness.

Jen (11:52)
wow, okay. That's interesting. But what's

so important to understand in that, believe, is especially, so my abuser was my father and he was supposed to be my protector. And that made me feel like, how low can I be that a protector would treat me the way that they're treating me?

And so you had said in the beginning, you had felt like you had to go for the low hanging fruit because you didn't think that you deserved the higher hanging fruit.

Anu Verma (12:27)
Exactly,

exactly, wow. But to have your own father, your own protector, yeah. And they're the people who were our main carers, you know, the people that we looked up to, who we'd inspire to. So for that to be just taken away from you at such a young age, that's, yeah, that is just, I couldn't even imagine. mean,

How about you in terms of, I don't think we even spoke about your healing journey. You probably have spoken about it a lot on the podcast, but.

Jen (12:58)
Yeah, no, my

journey was basically when I was 14, my abuser was taken from my home and it was, you know, I think a lot of people think that abuse and trauma ends when abuser leaves. And I went through a whole other set of traumas with the court system and, you know, being forced in front of grand juries to talk about sensitive information. So, you know, the trauma that I felt by the end of it, I was in college when I put my abuser in prison.

And I just didn't want to do it anymore. I didn't want to look at it and want to think about it. So I'd always say the, yet. You know, right now I'm in college, not yet. I'm getting married, not yet. I have a career. Just keep going with that, not yet. And I didn't have a lot of memories of the trauma. I don't have a lot of memories about my childhood at all, really. And when they do come up, they're surprising. My brothers will say things that had happened in our past.

things, not even bad things, and I'll totally not remember what they're talking about. So there's that, that ⁓ I learned very early to compartmentalize, I think. And when I talk about trauma, I talk about it, I always say it, I put my professor hat on, I'm talking about it as if it's fact and not supposed to be a feeling.

Anu Verma (14:20)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, this is why I call myself an educator and, somebody who inspires others with knowledge, just understanding it all because, that's the thing. I mean, even when I was seeing a therapist, a healer, nobody spoke about trauma. That's something that I learned later on in my journey. I was thinking, oh, why is this the first time that I'm hearing about this? And then just by researching, I was thinking, God, this is huge.

And then I'll realise it's because people just never associated the word trauma and PTSD with incidents like sexual abuse. It was just linked to, you know, veterans.

Jen (14:58)
Exactly. Yeah, you know, there's so many other things that cause PTSD, the common idea of it for probably throughout the 80s, 90s into probably even the early 2000s was that it's a veteran thing. People who've gone to war or people who have lived through war were the people who had PTSD when there's so many other things that cause it, not just the childhood trauma and domestic violence, but

also homelessness, these type of things cause some serious complex trauma that lives in our bodies, right?

Anu Verma (15:37)
Exactly and now with you know second degree trauma you know people can get that from even being exposed to a car crash and even online bullying you know that's very traumatic as well so

Jen (15:53)
How do you feel there is the difference between PTSD and complex PTSD?

Anu Verma (16:01)
So with PTSD, it's a one-time incident. And with complex PTSD, it's reoccurring incidents. And so people who have had childhood trauma and go on to then experience more trauma, it tends to be complex PTSD.

Jen (16:16)
Yeah, that's

how I had heard from a social worker. She gave me the same idea of you're in a car accident and you have the fear of getting back into a car, driving, that kind of thing. And you can get back through that. You can work back through that. Whereas complex PTSD is you've been steeped in this trauma for so long that your body and your mind, your brain has changed and you're in this hyper state all the time.

hyperarousal, hypervigilance, those type of things. The stress levels are so much higher for us. How do you feel you got through?

Anu Verma (16:47)
now.

I'll see you

Wow. Again, because of the dissociation, which I experienced majority of my life, I wasn't even in tune with my body. And I remember I was able to have injuries and not even feel them. Like even when I was getting migraines, I understood I had on, but I just carried on living through them because I thought pain was normal as well. And so, and I just wasn't looking after myself. And so I realized...

after that I was just in this hyper state of arousal, you know, living life, basically just doing rather than being and, you know, I was overworking and I was just like, like to actually sit still, like, on my own, that would really frighten me because then I'd be there with my memories. And so what I'd have to do is just keep going, keep working, keep pushing, and just keep, yeah, just

overworking. And so that was because I was suffering from anxiety and I didn't even realize it. And, you know, and I remember actually at one time I was actually losing hair because there was a lot of stressful events that were happening as a consequence of these abusive relationships that I was in. And there was like financial abuse and there was like court cases I was going through. And then that really led to a lot of chronic stress and

My hair was falling out and then that was the first time that I was actually able to experience what real stress felt like because then I was having sleepless nights and I just couldn't sleep

Jen (18:35)
what would you say was the point that you said to yourself, wow, I'm really in deep with my trauma, with the PTSD symptoms. What was that point that you were like, okay, I got to do something about this?

Anu Verma (18:53)
Yeah, so I guess it was after my fifth abusive relationship and I just felt like I was at rock bottom. I had two kind of legal cases going on with two of my exes and I just started to think what is the point in living? I had a feeling that I was going to die early anyway and I felt like I was just waiting to just die because I thought...

That's what life is. I had no idea that I could even find happiness. And so it was when I actually went back to my healer, Marie, and she'd already helped me previously to overcome some abuse. And I went back to her and I actually decided that I needed to go more into energy healing because that really helped me previously. And then I became a...

like a Reiki level one and then a Reiki level two teacher and then I became a Reiki master and it was through those trainings when I was actually becoming more and more in tune with myself and I remember I was again you know a lot of the trauma was coming out of my body so I was experiencing a lot of symptoms then and just like crying at midnight because of

you know, I had to get rid of a baby, unfortunately, because of it was it was a rape baby. But it's all stuff that I hid as well. You know, I hid it all because I was ashamed. blame myself, you know, especially being raped drugged not once, but twice. You know, you just think, oh, it's my own fault. You know, I asked for it. And so because I hadn't dealt with that and other incidents, incidences that I kid, they all kept coming up.

And then that's when I started to understand, whoa, this stuff could actually be released from my body. I don't have to hold it. And it was just an ongoing release of all the trauma that I was storing in my body. just, again, it took a few years, but that's when I started to see the light. I'm thinking, oh my God, there's more to life. I feel light. I don't have that baggage anymore. I feel free.

Jen (21:07)
That's

amazing. You know, I always assume that people know what Reiki is, and I only have a small understanding of it. did one, I did Reiki one time and it was helpful. I don't know why I haven't gone back, honestly. Could you explain Reiki a little bit?

Anu Verma (21:30)
Yeah, yeah, of course. So at first, obviously, I was thinking, it's just a woo woo. ⁓ But it's just an amazing, honestly, such an amazing technique. you know, it's like, what happens is

Jen (21:35)
Mm-hmm.

Anu Verma (21:45)
that a lot of these reiki healers, they get attuned with these healing energies. then again, I had no idea that we're just a bundle of energy, you know? And we have these amazing chakras in our bodies, which enables energy to flow healthfully and makes us a lot more just able to live our life more fully. And so what happens is, you know, when we haven't gone trauma, then all our chakras get blocked.

So when there's blockages, then that means that energy can't flow. And that's what leads to a lot of these symptoms that we have, like the stress symptoms and depression and ⁓ just anxiety as well. And so what Reiki does is there's a healer who actually unblocks those chakras. So they don't have to touch your body either. It's literally, they're...

positive energy just comes out of their hand and they're like these like mediums who pick up you know the blockages and they might pick up you know certain things that might be going on in your body like if there's any pain or if there's any stiffness and so they'll pick it up and they'll communicate that over to you.

And many of us spiritual beings as we are, and again, it depends if you believe in, another, the spiritual world, if you believe that there's something else beyond this physical form that we're in. And again, I never believed any of that until I started to really, go more deeper into it. And, I realised that there was angels who were looking out for me, there are spiritual guides that we have, and it's just such a beautiful world.

to understand that, we're not just, physical beings and now we're soulful, we're divine, beautiful, ⁓ like, spirits in this world. And that also enabled me to not fear death because so many of us fear death because we don't realise, we just think, ⁓ this is all we are. But to actually understand that we're more than here, it enables you to just

live life and not live in fear anymore. So Reiki, yeah, it's powerful stuff. That's energy healing and something else which is also really powerful is emotional freedom therapy which is tapping. I don't know if you've heard of tapping. Oh yeah.

Jen (24:14)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yep.

Yeah, I do EFT with my therapist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Anu Verma (24:20)
Perfect. Wow.

That's never. And it's funny as well because I had like talking therapy for many, many years, but the real healing began when I started to do these energy healing modalities. And it makes you think, doesn't it? Well, why aren't these part of the regulatory guidance? Because at the moment, the number one thing went to actually help with trauma and PTSD.

they're saying it's cognitive behavioural therapy. Obviously, that's just the guideline, but then I'm just thinking, no, I'm sorry, but there's so many other techniques which can be more powerful.

Jen (24:58)
There are so

many modalities now. I tell this story a lot. I ended up after my right now moment, I was putting together my team and I had a recommendation from my therapist and she's younger than I am. And I was like, how will this younger woman understand me, old woman that I am about what I'd gone through? But I realized when we started working together that she knew so many

more modalities now. That the younger therapists learn these modalities and I think the older therapists don't really get that chance to understand and build a repertoire of various modalities. So I think that's really important.

Anu Verma (25:46)
is important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that and there's so much technology associated therapies as well.

Jen (25:54)
Yeah, I do

EMDR. Yeah. So, well, it's not necessarily technology driven, but you know, the light bar and for people who don't know is that you watch a light go back and forth with your eyes and, you know, then you take a deep breath and you can work through singular traumas or an overall feeling, you know, that you're having if you're in a really depressive state, it can help you through this mind.

Anu Verma (25:58)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jen (26:23)
you know, eye coordination. So there's so many great modalities out there for us.

Anu Verma (26:28)
It is, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think we're blessed. And also with plant medicine as well, it depends how crazy, you know, people want to go.

Jen (26:39)
No, there's

room for all. If it's going to help someone, let's do it.

Anu Verma (26:46)
Exactly, yeah and I love trying as well, know, I absolutely love it and yeah just go with whatever resonates with you and there's so much you know embodiment coaching and you know somatic healing now as well which I absolutely love because as we know trauma is in the body so let's move the body and release the trauma and you know just yeah just try whatever works.

Jen (27:12)
You know, it's so

funny, my therapist is really into somatic healing. She's been trying to get me to do it. For some reason, there's a blockage in my brain that says, do not do this. there's a part of me that's like, don't start doing this weird movements and, you know, like, this is silly. This can't help you. It's opening your mind to these things, right? That's so important.

Anu Verma (27:39)
Yeah, 100 % yeah, we have to. wow, yeah. And, you know, again, there's a place for talking therapy, of course, you know, because we always have to talk about our issues, especially if we don't have like a friend or somebody trusting who we can actually open up to fully. Because I know that I don't know about you, but that was one of my problems is that it was hard to not only talk about, you know, talk about whatever I needed to, but

it was just hard to find the right person as well.

Jen (28:10)
Yeah,

I always tell people do not give up on therapy if you haven't found the right therapist. There's someone out there who is going to be able to help you and you can't give up on yourself that way as well. And the great thing about an individual therapist is that they're a third party. They're not a part of your life. You're not gonna hold back because they're not your family or your friend. You can tell them and it stays with them.

Anu Verma (28:39)
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, because I suppose the amount of times that we'll be telling our friends or family stuff, they're always going to have a biased approach because they've got your best interests at heart or they're tired of the same story over and over again. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, go and find somebody who's non-biased who you don't know.

Jen (28:40)
It's kind of like a relief, right?

Right.

Right? They'll keep

it with them. What stays in therapy, what is said in therapy stays in therapy. So tell me about Victim to Victor.

Anu Verma (29:13)
Exactly, exactly.

Yeah, so again, all started from my book when that was out. I just thought, wow, you this could really be something. And I absolutely I absolutely stand by those words because those were the words that empowered me. And I remember that my first feeling of victory was when I was in that courtroom and I won the trial against my ex who had financially abused me and he still pay me back to this day. So that was the first time in my

Jen (29:45)
Excellent.

Anu Verma (29:47)
whole life. was 32 at the time. That was my first time that I actually experienced feeling of victory. I was absolutely astonished. I was like, wow, you know, this is like strength. This is great. So, so that's why, you know, and my therapist as well, she used to always tell me as well, you're no more a victim, you're a victor. And I think those again, those words really got instilled into me. So I was like, well, I think I need to really

keep this as my brand. So obviously my book and then I just created my website which has loads of free resources on there as well and also my podcast and yeah, you know, I absolutely stand by it.

Jen (30:18)
It's a perfect saying.

and your podcast will tell us a little bit about that too.

Anu Verma (30:40)
yeah oh my podcast so i started that in 2021 and it was a lot of it was for my own healing as i said you know i was actually talking and the more that i spoke the more i healed and then i started getting people wanting to be on it so i was thinking oh again i had no idea about this guesting thing and then yeah there was now exactly so back in 2021 this is all very like oh this is niche

Jen (31:00)
Yeah, I know there's so many out there.

Anu Verma (31:10)
And then people started to come on and I was like, this is really nice. I'm really getting to know people. And then it kind of like grew from there. And then I had to take two years out because I had my second child and that was, she's two now. And then it was only last autumn when I decided to get back on it because I was really missing being out there.

and connecting and meeting people. And to be honest, think that's why I love doing it. It's just the amount of people that you talk to.

Jen (31:41)
Yeah, know,

everyone that I've talked to, I've stayed in touch with and I consider them friends. I've really bonded with them over these interviews, these stories, these discussions.

Anu Verma (31:47)
Yeah.

This is community, know, and it's the number one cure for depression is to have a community of like-minded people that you can really, you know, communicate with and people that you resonate with and people that don't judge you. And I feel like that's what this podcasting's enabled us to do.

Jen (32:13)
Yeah,

community is so important for especially, I think, trauma victims. When I was young and I was forced into doing things like group therapy, I hated it. Absolutely hated it. What do we want to be sitting here doing right now? We want to be out doing whatever teenagers do, right? And now I realize that group therapy is so healing because you have this community that

understands you, is going through the same things and can say, yeah, I feel you. And this is what I do to help me. You know, just getting the word out to each other and lifting each other up, knowing what we've all gone through.

Anu Verma (32:56)
Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Yeah, that's why I'm so grateful for this space and the fact that we can all do it online. Yeah, we can go through this journey together. Let's rock it.

Jen (33:05)
We could do this together.

COVID was terrible, was absolutely the worst. It was awful, awful. But I think it did actually build up the ability for us to reach out to people who live across the pond, across the ocean, and where we've never been before and were able to talk to them.

create community in that way as well.

Anu Verma (33:37)
Absolutely, Yeah, with every ⁓ negative comes a positive. It's the fact of life. Yin-yang. Yeah. That's what's happened.

Jen (33:49)
So if you were going to give someone ⁓ advice, having been through what you've been through, and someone who's gone through a similar situation is just starting out on their healing journey, what would you give them as advice?

Anu Verma (34:04)
Well, the first thing that I did is actually seek help. So try and find somebody trusted who you can talk to or even a healer, somebody who can really heal you. And yeah, you'd be amazed at what happens. And I know taking that first step is always daunting because it's something different and it's going out of your comfort zone.

And I know I always struggle with the first step, but once you do it, you wouldn't want to look back and you just think, whoa, you know, why didn't I do this sooner? So yeah, it's all about taking that first step. And this is why podcasts like this and, you know, people like us, you know, we're here to help motivate people to do that. We're here to help give them that courage that come on, you know, you need to do this.

because back then there was nobody to tell me.

Jen (35:02)
Back then, when I was young, was, and many people in my generation feel the same way, is that we don't talk about emotions, we don't talk about our issues either with our mental health or anything really. We were taught to not be big, to stay small, right?

Anu Verma (35:22)
Yeah. Stay small,

Yeah, absolutely. And then that was kind of just coinciding with how I felt about myself anyway. You know, lacking self-worth. Yeah, stay small, it's fine because that's all I'm, I don't deserve anything more. I don't deserve anything better. So yeah, yeah, it does.

Jen (35:41)
but you learned

that you do. You're a victor.

Anu Verma (35:46)
Yes! ⁓

Jen (35:48)
It's so amazing. If

we were to go on your website, what would we find there?

Anu Verma (35:56)
Yeah, so, Victor into Victor with a number two dot net. I'm there. And yeah, you know, you'll find out all about me and then you can actually join. There's a few kind of like a free set, free webinar and you can join this 12 week self development plan. You can download it like a free healing book and you can find out information about my book on there as well. So, yeah, go on there. Check me out and follow me on socials. I'm on all the socials, Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.

⁓ LinkedIn, you know, it'll just be my name and then it'll be victim to victor. So if you google those, you should be able to find me everywhere. ⁓

Jen (36:36)
Wonderful. Well, I definitely put all the information to the show notes, including your book. What's the name of the book? it's a Victor to Victor. OK, awesome. Let's keep it all in one. Perfect. Makes it easy to remember. Yes, me too. So that will all be in the show notes. And I want to thank you so much for being on the show. It was a wonderful conversation.

Anu Verma (36:45)
Victim to victor, yeah. Easy, easy. I like simplicity.

Thank you.

it was. really enjoyed that. Absolutely. It's such a pleasure to be of service and I think it's amazing what you're doing as well. And ⁓ yeah, I just think you're a great host.

Jen (37:15)
Thank you.

Everybody go listen to the podcast to Victim to Victor because it's incredible. And thank you again.

Anu Verma (37:29)
Thank you so much.

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (37:34)
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the podcast. This show is produced by Phoenix Freed LLC, and I'm your producer, Jen Ginty We hope you found today's conversation insightful and inspiring. If you have a story of your own about when a not yet moment became a right now, we encourage you to reach out and share it. You can find more information about being a guest on our show at whennotyetbecomesrightnow.com. Remember, you are not alone on your journey, whether it's a journey of healing,

growth or transformation. Every story matters. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time with another inspiring episode.