Transforming Anxiety into Empowerment: Understanding OCD with Liz Murray

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (00:00)
Welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now, the podcast where we dive deep into the moments of transformation, the times when not yet shifts into right now and everything changes. I'm your host, Jen Ginty and this podcast is all about those pivotal moments in our life journeys. You know the ones, when the hesitation fades, when we take that first step, even if it feels like a leap. It's in these moments that growth and healing begins. Each episode will explore stories of resilience,

moments of clarity, and the sparks that ignite real change. From personal experiences to expert insights, we'll uncover how people navigate the complex journey we call life and come out stronger on the other side. Whether you're searching for that spark in your own life or just curious about how change unfolds for others, you're in the right place. We'll discuss the ups and downs, the breakthroughs and setbacks, and how to embrace the right now, even when it feels out of reach. Because sometimes,

The hardest part of the journey is realizing that the moment you've been waiting for has already arrived. So take a deep breath, settle in, and let's get started.

Jen (01:09)
Hello and welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now. I have a wonderful guest for us today and her name is Liz Murray. She is a transformational coach for midlife women who's walked an extraordinary path. Born into a peaceful home, life shifted dramatically.

when her younger brother's severe autism brought chaos and challenge. silently battled depression and OCD from the age of 10, unaware of what it was until years later during her psychology studies. She went on to work as cabin crew, surviving the trauma of 9-11 in New York. After years of masking high anxiety, Liz found healing through meditation, mindfulness, and subconscious reprogramming.

Now she helps women navigate midlife with calm, clarity, and confidence. Welcome, Liz.

Liz Murray (02:02)
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

Jen (02:04)
⁓ thank you for coming on.

So let's get into it. What is your origin story?

Liz Murray (02:13)
So my origin story, I was, ⁓ so originally I went through life on pretty much high state of alert with my nervous system. So you've very well outlined my sort of my story there with what happened in my childhood. ⁓ And because of, you know, the experiences of growing up ⁓ in a sort of quite a unique situation.

I had, ⁓ I did suffer a lot of anxiety and fear, which obviously led to OCD. going through that, and then I did manage to sort of, to find coping strategies as I got through my teenage years, things that I just kind of found helping, sort of.

with, like, I'd get people to do things for me, like turning on light switches or whatever. And it took the responsibility away from me. And then going into the airlines when I became older was, I think, also a form of escape, but also the angst. You never really escape the anxiety, do you? It's always there. Like you're trying to sort of run away, but it follows you. It's always with you.

So I went through many, years suffering from chronic anxiety and I just thought it was the way I was basically. And I had sort of a defining moment with during 9-11 when I was cabin crew and flying into New York. ⁓ And it was after that I started to get really curious about...

things to do with mindfulness. And I kind of knew there must be ways that I can help myself. Started to open up to that and I did a bit of qigong, which I found very, very restful.

And then I did a mindfulness course back in, think around 2012. And that was a turning point for me because in meditation, I did find some peace. So there was an alternative way of being. ⁓ And doing such a structured course was amazing because I had to set, it wasn't something I was dipping in and out of. I had my daily practice to do. And so that really

got me curious to sort of opening up more to what can help, what's going to alleviate this anxiety. And then COVID happened. I became, I was very ill right at the beginning. We had a number of things happen in our family and it was a bit of a, okay, so I'm kind of existing now. I'm in a job that it was, you know, I was an emotional support TA in a school.

teaching assistant. I felt like I was using my skills but not using my skills. just knew I've always had this feeling there was something more and that went hand in hand my career and my healing. It just felt like the two were married up and I had trained as a life coach and a counselor in my path along from uni.

And ⁓ I realized that I wanted to go back to the coaching, but I was quite terrified to do that. was like jumping back in. I'd been a life coach 20 years before, before I had my daughter. And ⁓ the whole coaching world had changed completely. So I discovered this subconscious reprogramming, belief coding, and that's where the changes really started to happen. So I started, I trained how to belief code on other people.

but also on myself. And I have multiple sessions and I realized a lot of this anxiety was lifting. I was starting to feel more confident. I was starting to feel that I can do this. can launch this business and do the things that I want to do. So it was very much for me a bit of a metamorphosis in both how I was as a person, but also in my career too.

So, and yeah, so which has led me now to helping other women in midlife do exactly the same.

Jen (06:38)
Wow, yeah. It sounds like you have a lot of experience with life, especially with the feelings of anxiety and living through that daily. Let's go back to the beginning. So you had a brother who was born with autism and it was very stressful for you. And I know we spoke about this before.

I also, so my son, my oldest son was diagnosed with autism when he was four.

Liz Murray (07:13)
⁓ I, until I was, so my brother was actually born when I was seven. So I had a very sort of peaceful sort of happy childhood up until that time. and when he was born, it was probably, my parents had a dreadful time.

trying, they never didn't even get him diagnosed because there was no diagnosis. so they were sort of grappling with trying to, they knew something was wrong, but they, didn't know what and nobody could tell them what. And, and so, and his behavior probably from the age of two started to become really quite extreme. And so by this time I was nine and it, everything just changed. So, ⁓

much in our family, in our home. And it felt like a lack of control, unable to control. So, and he was grappling as well with his disability and I think there were lot of frustrations there. But he was able to see the difference between me and him. And that in that...

obviously brought a lot of feelings of anger and frustration towards me because he could see that there was a difference and that I had a very different relationship with people, my parents. And so as a result of that, he did take a lot of his frustration out on me. And so ⁓ I would sort of have to...

As he started to get older, would sort of rush him from school and my bedroom door would have to be locked, otherwise he'd go in and smash things. so it was kind of like, you know, I'd dash in, run up and shut the door very quickly. And it just became a very, very different landscape to the landscape that I'd lived in. And I think because of that, my sort of nervous system went into sort of a protective thing. And I started then to feel very low.

⁓ I guess in a way felt trapped. And then that started to present with repetitive behaviors and ⁓ me sort of trying to gain some kind of control. I was always fearful that something really bad would happen to my family or, you know, to the people that I cared about. And so I would have to sort of perform certain rituals in order to stop that. But sometimes I just couldn't stop performing the rituals. It was just, you know, this compulsion to do that.

And it was quite, I felt very isolated in this because nobody else knew that I, so it was almost a sense of, there was a sense of shame there, but also like I was, I had a lovely set of friends and they were never aware. I just kept it hidden. didn't, I didn't share it. I kept it hidden within. So that was also quite a lonely place as well.

Jen (10:07)
Yeah, and we've talked about this before, the not having diagnoses way back when, right? Like we didn't have diagnoses like autism or OCD or PTSD. They just kind of, know, those were quirks that people had, right? It wasn't beyond that. Like you were quirky because of it. And again, we also talked about my brother.

Liz Murray (10:14)
Yes.

Yes. Yeah.

Jen (10:37)
has OCD and growing up with ⁓ watching his compulsive behaviors, getting to understand those and be able to help him through those was something that I learned. And he self-diagnosed himself, and we talked about you also self-diagnosed, but he self-diagnosed himself when we saw an Oprah Winfrey show.

Liz Murray (11:00)
⁓

Jen (11:01)
Yeah, and that was the eye opener for him. What was the eye opener for you?

Liz Murray (11:07)
Well, for me, it was when I got to university when ⁓ I was 18. I didn't know what to study, but I was interested in psychology, probably because of everything that we had in our family. And so I decided to study what I was interested in. if I went and one day I was sat in a lecture, ⁓ it was a clinical psychologist giving the lecture.

and it was on obsessive compulsive disorder. And he sat there describing his patients. And that was the moment the penny dropped when I realized that that's what I've been suffering from all those years. It was kind of a bit of a, you know, big light bulb moment for me. And

He also said that it was very difficult to cure, as he put cure in this medical profession.

Jen (11:59)
Yeah, because mental

illness can be cured, right? ⁓

Liz Murray (12:02)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

and so I didn't really know what to do with that information. So again, I buried it. It was the kind of thing, the only thing I knew to do with it. So I had it there, but I just sort of buried it, ⁓ and just carried on really. But that was the moment I just really, really self-diagnosed myself.

Jen (12:22)
You know, I think this gives an opportunity for us to tell people and educate people about what OCD is. Because I think a lot of people use the term very lightly for themselves when they are kind of obsessive about being clean in the house. When people tell me those kind of things, I'm like, you don't have OCD, you're just anal. Right?

Liz Murray (12:48)
Yes, yeah, there's a difference.

Jen (12:50)
Right, there's a huge difference and OCD

Liz Murray (12:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jen (12:53)
can be paralyzing. Yeah.

Liz Murray (12:55)
Yes, and

it's not a choice. ⁓ It's a compulsion. it is, it's not like a choice to have a tidy house or a, you know, clean bathroom or whatever. It's not, that isn't, it's very much a set of compulsive behaviors that are driven by fear.

And ⁓ it's almost like it's the fear of if you don't do those compulsive things, something bad will happen. And so it's ⁓ really debilitating. ⁓ And it can show up sort of for somebody all day, every day. You know, it's something that's always there. ⁓ So yes, it's very different. And I do know that the term OCD does get banded around quite lightheartedly. ⁓

these days especially but yeah there's a very big difference between the two.

Jen (13:54)
Yeah, yeah, it's like you said, debilitating at times. And if you do not understand the diagnosis, like being back when you first started having your symptoms, it can just continue to ⁓ build and build and get to a point of complete debilitation.

Liz Murray (14:16)
Yes.

Yes, yes, exactly. And thankfully now there are so many ways that you can be helped. know, there are, there's so much support out there now. So, is fantastic, but back in those days, there wasn't, it wasn't there. So, you know, if anybody does feel that they're in that situation, then a hundred percent reach out for help because it's there and there's supports there.

Jen (14:46)
huh.

Yeah, I mean, have medication that works well with it. I know that my brother has a cocktail that he is able to move around when he knows where he's at with his OCD. And then there are also things like CBT that can really help. Do you use any kind of modalities to help you through?

Liz Murray (14:50)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

So for me now, I've got to a stage where it doesn't really affect my life because I have done so much subconscious work. But I do know that when I start to feel anxious about something, because of the awareness that I've got about my triggers, and all of sort of how I react, I can start to feel it creeping in. And at that point,

I stop myself, you know, and I could, because I can recognize that that very sort of that point where, where it's sort of that little, get it heading towards the tipping point, I can stop and I just regroup. And for me, it's about just reminding myself I'm safe, I'm safe, I'm safe. And just sort of going through that moment, just grounding myself. And then I will...

do a belief coding session on myself, a bit of EFT, which is amazing. So positive psychology techniques. just use, I have a little sort of cocktail of things I can use, you know, to, to help me through. it never actually escalates. It doesn't ever get past that sort of, you know, that's beginning stage for me now. Yeah.

Jen (16:30)
That's wonderful. That's incredible

that you've been able to build this kind of internal support system for yourself.

Liz Murray (16:37)
Yes, yeah, it is. It's very freeing and it also gives me confidence, you know, to know that I can actually do that for myself. I can actually, you know, help myself and get move past anything, any challenge that comes along. I know it may not be pleasant, but I know that I can manage it and I can do it.

Jen (17:04)
That's wonderful. What made you decide to go into being a flight attendant?

Liz Murray (17:11)
⁓ I do think there's a part of running away, but there was also this desire to travel. So first of all, I was a flight attendant in the Middle East. so I joined a large Middle Eastern airline and I was sort of taken out with a bunch of other... ⁓

women at the same age and we just all became very close friends very quickly because we were like each other's family. And we did have an absolutely fantastic time. mean, that was it. But I think my actual choice to join was also I had this real desire to travel and see the world. ⁓ I'd had a very serious relationship and I just couldn't, just, there was something in me that wouldn't allow me to settle down.

I just had this feeling I've got more to do. I can't, I just have more to do before I, and it was very strong, this feeling. So that's what I did. I went off, spent four years in the Middle East and flew and then came back and worked in the UK as a flight attendant for 12 years. So, and it only was going to be for a year. Yes. ⁓

Jen (18:25)
how things change. So

it was that enjoyable for you.

Liz Murray (18:32)
It was bittersweet. So in the Middle East, was ⁓ amazing. We were treated very, very well and people to do everything for us. It was in the early 90s, but there was a flip side. We were expected to look a certain way and to be a certain weight.

And so, you know, we were weighed every six months. And if we'd gone over that, we were grounded for a while until got back to that weight. Yeah. That's the nineties. Yeah. And so there was behind sort of the really fun side, you know, it was, we did, we partied, we had so much fun. There was always that sort of condition of

Jen (19:05)
Wow, I guess that's the 90s though.

Liz Murray (19:24)
you know, you have to look a certain way. And I remember in my interview for the airline, I was put on a box and I was asked to wear a skirt to the interview and they walked around looking at my legs and then my asked to put my arms out and to see what my arms looked like. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was very, ⁓ very different to the recruitment process nowadays.

Jen (19:41)
Wow.

I can imagine.

I mean, if you think about it, if that was the 90s, the 80s must have been even crazier.

Liz Murray (19:53)
Yes, yeah.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it was just the way it was in those days. Nobody questioned it. It was just, you know, we wanted this job. We wanted to go, you know, and that was the condition. So it's, you know, it's, yeah. When I look at that now, I just think, wow, I didn't really do that. You know? Yeah. It is. It is insane. Yeah. Yeah.

Jen (20:02)
how.

Yeah, that's kind of insane. So

you were traveling, you were on a flight to New York during 9-11. And could you tell us a little bit about that experience?

Liz Murray (20:33)
Yes. Yes.

Well,

so this is one way in which I've always had intuition in my life. And this was when I really realized that I have to start listening to it because the night before I was in a hotel room at Heathrow London ⁓ airport. And ⁓ I knew that I was flying out early to New York the next day, but I had this really strong feeling that I couldn't go.

and I was feeling very emotional about it. And I rang the crew control to ask them if I could take leave because if there was people on reserve, then you were able to do that. You could just take leave and not do the flight. But they said there was nobody else to cover it, in which case I couldn't. So I said, okay, well, I'm gonna go to sleep now, but if you just wake me up any time of the night, if somebody comes, because I really don't want to do this flight.

I felt really emotional. I rang my mom. said, I just can't go. And it was really strange because I had been flying for a long time. it wasn't, you know, it wasn't the flying. The job was sort of every day to me. ⁓ And so the next morning, it was very early report. ⁓ I went in again. I actually physically went in when I went to report for the flight and said, is there anyone else that can do this flight? Because I really don't want to go. And they...

There wasn't. So I was, okay, fine. I will do it. So I went, I remember getting on the aircraft and calling my mum from the toilets. It was in the days of the very big clunky cell phones. And before we, before takeoff, because you couldn't do that in the air. It was all very basic. ⁓ I just quickly rang her and said, look, I'm okay. I'm fine. I'm going. ⁓ And then,

Jen (22:18)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Murray (22:31)
off I went and it was when we were descending into New York, we were on final descent, ⁓ that, well just before that, the senior crew member had been called to the flight deck. Because of the particular words they used, we knew it was an emergency. ⁓ And he came down, this guy had been flying for many, many years and he came down as white as a sheet. So we knew that this was an emergency and we knew it was...

possibly life threatening, but we didn't know what it was. We weren't told. All we were told to do was get everyone in their seats with their seat belts fastened and each one of us to stand at the front of the cabin and stop anyone that gets up. So that's what we were told. So, and I remember asking the senior crew member, okay, so what is it? Is it a bomb? Is it, you know, all these things going through my already anxious mind. And ⁓ so we finally,

they wouldn't let us land. So we went straight back up again. They wouldn't let us land in New York. So we were diverted to Boston at the last minute and we stayed in the sort of emergency ⁓ state sort of at the front of the cabin ⁓ of each cabin until we got to final descent into Boston. And then we had to sit down. landed and then we got on the stand and then a

ground staff member came onto the aircraft, got on the interphone and everybody was already really nervous, passengers, everybody was, didn't know what was going on. And I shall never forget her words. She said, ladies and gentlemen, America is under attack. And with that, everybody, all of the passengers on the plane, just, there was, you know, screaming and people were panicking and.

So ⁓ we were trying to calm them down, but obviously had no expl- still didn't know any explanation. And so they, we, they got everyone off as quickly as possible. And then it wasn't until the captain debriefed us, ⁓ where, and the poor guy was tearful because of what he'd seen going on around him. And he didn't know if we were the next one because nobody knew. So the pressure he'd been under.

He told us what had been happening, the planes had gone into the twin towers. And we were also told that there was another hijacked plane still in the air. So we needed to evacuate. And I walked into the US that day, literally walked into an empty building. I've never had this, and no passport control, nothing. We just all were rushed straight the way through this completely empty building.

and straight out the other side onto a bus. And yeah, and it wasn't until we got to the crew hotel where there were many other crews staying as well and some of which I knew that people said that I was shaking from head to toe, but I had no idea. And they said my whole body was just, you know, sort of in a state of shock. Yeah.

Jen (25:48)
can only imagine.

We have these connections because I was in Boston the day that it happened. I was going into work and we found out as soon as I got into work, we had found out and getting out of Boston was a nightmare because of that fear that because one of the flights came from Boston to New York that Boston was the next.

Liz Murray (25:58)
you? Yes.

Yes.

Jen (26:18)
to happen, right? Because they've been here. That must have been one of the most shocking and horrific days for you.

Liz Murray (26:18)
Yes.

It really was. you know, you saying that reminded me because we were taken into Boston, the road was empty coming out of Boston, the roads were jammed, no one could get out because everyone was trying to evacuate the city.

Jen (26:43)
I believe it took me

three hours to get home, which was like a lesson of an hour ride. Yeah.

Liz Murray (26:47)
Yeah, yeah,

can. Yes. And there were no phone lines out of the US, so I couldn't call my parents. And my parents didn't know which, they hadn't realized which planes were affected at that time. All they knew was that we were descending into New York at that time. So my parents went through hours of agony, not knowing whether it was our aircraft or not. Because the airline that I was working for also didn't, nobody knew where any of the planes were, because it was just absolute chaos.

Jen (27:13)
Right.

Liz Murray (27:16)
so yes, I, was, it was, and I don't, I, I carried on flying and then after that, ⁓ but I didn't really acknowledge the trauma from that. I just pushed it down as I'd always dealt with and with, and then it got to the point where I couldn't go to work. ⁓

Jen (27:24)
Okay.

Liz Murray (27:41)
I just physically couldn't get on a flight. It was just too ⁓ terrifying for me. So I probably flew, I don't know, probably about three months after that, and then I had to stop. And I had three months off ⁓ of flying. ⁓ And then I did go back, but it was just never the same. just, it just didn't, the job just always felt different to me. So yeah, that was kind of the beginning of the end really for the flying.

Jen (28:10)
Yeah, kind of like

a sparkle was pulled from it, right?

Liz Murray (28:14)
Yes.

And there was always that element of fear in the background. I was on high vigilance, high alert all of the time, because that's how my nervous system naturally was anyway. And now I had this reason, another reason to be on high alert.

Jen (28:29)
Right.

Well, you're

piling on the PTSD.

Liz Murray (28:35)
Exactly. And I didn't, and I didn't give myself any credit for the fact that that's what I was suffering with. I saw my friends carrying on flying and I looked at myself as if, can't you do that? Why can't you just do what everyone else is doing? ⁓ I felt like a failure. Like, why can't I, they've all got past this.

this threat, why can't you? You know, that's what was going on in my mind. There was no sort of acceptance for the fact or grace for myself for what I'd been through. That was...

Jen (29:14)
Well, you

mentioned that you had felt shame around your mental health before that. So again, piling on shame. Why can't I do what other people are doing? Right? So is that when, right, right. So is that when you decided to become a TA? okay.

Liz Murray (29:20)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, I must be weak. Yeah.

No, actually, it was

at that point, whilst I've been working on the airlines, I've trained as a therapist, as a counselor. And when I left the airlines, I decided to train as a life coach and we are going back now, sort of 2003. So the life coaching industry in the UK was very much in its infancy. So I found the most comprehensive training that I could.

And so, and I did that until my daughter was born. So I was working with women to set up their own businesses. And I was really enjoying doing that. And then my daughter was born and I did it for a bit. And then I realized that actually I just want to be there for her. I just want to be a stay at home mum for a while. So I did that and I really enjoyed that time. I felt privileged that I could do it and...

Jen (30:23)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Murray (30:32)
It was yeah, was a lovely time for me. And then when she got a little older, at junior school, I started helping in the school. And as a result of that, they offered me a job. And so, and I ended up staying there. And that worked out so well because obviously my school holidays were her school holidays. It was fantastic, but it just went on a little too long because she left. She went to senior school and I was still there. And I'm like, what am I doing? You know, this doesn't...

This no longer fits, you know, but I'm very grateful for my time there because at the time, you know, it worked. It worked for some time and I was able to, trained to, ⁓ it was around as well when I was discovering mindfulness for myself. So I trained to teach mindfulness in schools. So I was running the mindfulness in schools project as well for the children in junior school, which I really enjoyed and

I just feel that that's so important these days, but if we can get our children young to be looking into mindfulness, using those tools, it's going to equip them just massively in the future. It's something that they can always use throughout their lives. So that felt great to be using that and to be helping those children.

Jen (31:50)
that's wonderful. Yes, I think we all need to be taught how to use mindfulness in our everyday lives. I think we'd all be slightly maybe a little bit less stressed, right?

Liz Murray (32:03)
Yep, absolutely. Yeah.

Jen (32:05)
So you had done

the coaching for women and you had this hiatus and then went back to it. What made you go back to it?

Liz Murray (32:08)
Yes. I did. That long one. Yes.

⁓ All through my life, I've always known there's something more, there's something more and ⁓ I hadn't yet found it. And I just knew that I loved the coaching, but there was something more to do with the coaching. It wasn't quite there. And I've seen a wonderful lady, spiritual healer for 20 odd years now. So I guess she was also the beginning of me sort of opening up on healing journey because

She's done so much for me. And it was around about this time I went to see her and I said, you know, I feel like I'd like to go back into coaching. And I think I'm going to do mindfulness coaching. And she said, yeah, this is what you are meant to do, but not the mindfulness. And I'm thinking, what do you mean not the mindfulness? You can't, you know, I felt a bit sort of, what do you mean it's not? She no, no, she said there's something else. And so,

I went away and a little bit later got introduced to the belief coding, the subconscious programming. And so I sent her a text and I said, I've seen this thing. Is this it? And she came back. She went, yes, that's it. And I was, ⁓ fantastic. And she has been amazingly right about so many things in my life.

Jen (33:33)
That's awesome.

Liz Murray (33:41)
but I had full confidence in and yeah, it's just been the best thing for me. And then also for my clients as well.

Jen (33:50)
Can you tell us a little bit more about it's subconscious reprogramming? Is that what it's called? Okay.

Liz Murray (33:54)
Yes. So,

yes. So I use, I use belief coding and then I have a coaching program with, which includes that, but also positive psychology techniques as well. So there's a bit of a mixture in there ⁓ of things, but with belief coding, uses a little bit of NLP, positive psychology, kinesiology, EFT, so matrix re-imprinting. So there's a lot of modalities brought into it.

But it's basically the theory behind it is if we have these subconscious, we have subconscious beliefs running about ourselves and the world around us that don't serve us. And 95 % of our thinking, feeling and acting comes from our subconscious. So it's massive. So whilst the 5 % conscious mind can turn around and say, actually, I don't want to be like this anymore. I don't want to be anxious. ⁓

Unless you actually change that at a subconscious level, you're fighting a losing battle. You need to actually get to where the trauma originates. And so ⁓ with belief coding, we look at and we take a negative belief that somebody has about themselves, something, a block, something they don't feel able to change. And we go back to where that belief was imprinted. And it's always,

a moment of trauma ⁓ in their lives. Quite often goes back to childhood, but not always. ⁓ And then we go back to that memory and reprogram it and then program in new amazing beliefs that are liberating. And it works. ⁓ It's still inner child work ⁓ and it just changes things subconsciously and people find

as a result of doing this, that they just, they don't have to think about it, they automatically act, feel and feel very differently, ⁓ which is really quite magical.

Jen (36:03)
it sounds a little bit like, so I have a couple of different modalities I do with my therapist, including inner child work, internal family systems, but also EMDR. Yeah, with the light bar and that changes the neuron pathways. Is that something that's similar to the reprogramming?

Liz Murray (36:16)
yes. Yeah.

Yeah, so it does work at a neurological level. So they're doing actually a lot of tests on it at the moment and the results coming out as sort of the research is phenomenal. So yes, it does actually rewire your brain. So, you you're firing sort of different neurons and different pathways. So yes, it does. It works in a similar way to that, which is why you don't have to think about it because your brain automatically will start to use those new pathways.

Jen (36:56)
It's absolutely fascinating that our brains can do things like that.

Liz Murray (36:56)
So yeah.

It's incredible. The human brain is, well, they say we don't understand the majority of it, but it is incredible. The capacity for healing, the capacity for change. And I don't think that I certainly didn't, even with my training in counseling and psychology, I didn't realize that you can actually change so much about yourself. I just thought, this is the way I am, but it just isn't the case.

I love being able to tell people that actually, no, you don't have to live like that. It's not who you are. It's just a result of the experiences that you've had. And trauma doesn't have to be a big T. You know, I've had people say to me, but I had the most perfect childhood and that's fine. Yes, but we all have these, what I would call the smaller T's where you may have been in a classroom when you were a child and got told off for talking. And while it's not a major thing,

It can show up in adulthood where you might be in a meeting at work and you don't feel that you can voice your opinions and you don't because of that, it's still playing out in your life. So until you go back and address the original point where this trauma happened, you're not gonna change the way things are in your present life.

Jen (38:18)
That makes total sense. And when you're dealing with complex trauma, how does that work with the modalities that you use? What is the way that you would go in? Let's say someone came to you with a very difficult trauma background in childhood, and they understand it, recognize it.

Liz Murray (38:21)
Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Jen (38:46)
can maybe even remember parts of it. How would you start working?

Liz Murray (38:52)
So what I would always start with is what is really uppermost in their mind at any one time. So at the beginning of, so we'll look at what their goals are before we restart. We'll look at where they are now and where they want to be. And then we'll go on to when they start the first subconscious session with me, it's very much, what do you feel right now is the most pressing thing that we need to work on?

And it's basically trusting the subconscious mind is going to take you to where you need to go because it does have, you know, it's, will only ever allow you to go where it's safe to go. So it's very much sort of drilling back from what is the biggest discomfort on that day. And that's our starting point. And then we'll go to the next one.

and it will present with what needs to be healed on that second session and so on. And that is the best way because I could sit there and say, ⁓ yes, we need to work on this or whatever, but actually no, their subconscious will let them know what they need to work on. We need to go very much with where they are, meet them where they are on the day.

Jen (40:14)
So is this something that you feel is a long-term kind of modality that when I talk to people and they ask me where I'm at in my healing journey, I usually say I'm in the middle. And 10 years from now, I'll probably be in the middle again, because there's a lot to unpack, but also we learn so much more about ourselves as we go on that healing journey. Do you think that that's something

Liz Murray (40:28)
Yeah.

Yes.

We do.

Jen (40:42)
that you continue to do with this modality.

Liz Murray (40:46)
I certainly do, personally. I have sessions every week.

I do like ⁓ a reciprocal agreement with somebody else that does it. So we do sessions on each other each week. And I'm the same as you, you know, I don't think you ever get to the destination, but you just, it just gets better and better and better. And it's that old, you know, the classic thing of peeling off the onion layers. And when you do peel off the outer layers, then the inner layers will present and then the inner layers from that. so...

I think there's something rather lovely about that. You never get to the end of the journey or to the center of the onion, it's just very rewarding, I think, to be in that process. Having said that, I do have clients come to me that might have a phobia, like a fear of flying or fear of driving on the motorway or whatever. And with that,

you know, that's one thing that they want to fix. We can do that and we can fix that. We can do that in one session and then we've cleared that. But if somebody's coming to me for much broader issues such as anxiety, overwhelm, then it is a process and yeah, very much so. It's a voyage of discovery, which is, think, always so rewarding.

Jen (42:15)
I agree, absolutely. think the voyage is the important part of it and staying on that voyage, even when you feel like you can't be on the ocean that day or anything, it's worth it. you. Yeah.

Liz Murray (42:30)
Absolutely.

are those days because

healing is not a linear process. You know, there are those days where things go backwards and it's just about recognizing and accepting that and not feeling like you've lost something or, you know, it's just about accepting and understanding how the healing process works. So yeah.

Jen (42:37)
Never.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Well, tell us where we can find you.

Liz Murray (43:00)
So I have a website, lismurraycoaching.com. ⁓ I'm also on Facebook, book and LinkedIn as Lis Murray. ⁓ And ⁓ I'm on Instagram as underscore Liz underscore Murray.

Jen (43:13)
⁓ wonderful. And that will all be in the show notes.

Liz Murray (43:18)
Thank you. And I'd also,

if I'm able to mention, I also have a book collaboration that has just come out on pre-order on Wednesday and we got to best seller status on the Kindle edition, which I'm so excited about. thank you. Thank you. it's in that, in my chapter, there's 10 ladies that have each written a chapter on their healing journey through trauma.

Jen (43:21)
Yes.

Congratulations! That's wonderful!

Liz Murray (43:45)
and I talk about the story in more detail that we've just spoken about today in that chapter.

Jen (43:52)
Wow. Well, I'll definitely have the link to it in the show notes as well. I'm excited to see it. Well, thank you again for coming on the show. You are a wealth of information for all.

Liz Murray (43:57)
Thank you so much. Thank you.

thank you. I've really enjoyed it.

Jen (44:10)
Yes, me too.

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (44:14)
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the podcast. This show is produced by Phoenix Freed LLC, and I'm your producer, Jen Ginty We hope you found today's conversation insightful and inspiring. If you have a story of your own about when a not yet moment became a right now, we encourage you to reach out and share it. You can find more information about being a guest on our show at whennotyetbecomesrightnow.com. Remember, you are not alone on your journey, whether it's a journey of healing,

growth or transformation. Every story matters. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time with another inspiring episode.