Resilience Through Play Therapy with Stacy Schaffer

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (00:00)
Welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now, the podcast where we dive deep into the moments of transformation, the times when not yet shifts into right now and everything changes. I'm your host, Jen Ginty, and this podcast is all about those pivotal moments in our life journeys. You know the ones, when the hesitation fades, when we take that first step, even if it feels like a leap. It's in these moments that growth and healing begins. Each episode will explore stories of resilience,

moments of clarity, and the sparks that ignite real change. From personal experiences to expert insights, we'll uncover how people navigate the complex journey we call life and come out stronger on the other side. Whether you're searching for that spark in your own life or just curious about how change unfolds for others, you're in the right place. We'll discuss the ups and downs, the breakthroughs and setbacks, and how to embrace the right now, even when it feels out of reach. Because sometimes,

The hardest part of the journey is realizing that the moment you've been waiting for has already arrived. So take a deep breath, settle in, and let's get started.

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (01:10)
This episode discusses sexual abuse, childhood trauma, betrayal by caregivers, and the lasting impacts of abuse. These topics may be difficult or triggering for some listeners. Please take care of yourself while listening.

Jen (01:27)
Hello and welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now. Today we're joined by Stacy Schaffer. A licensed professional counselor with over two decades of experience guiding children, teens and young adults through life's toughest emotional and behavioral challenges. Based in Colorado, Stacy is the founder and director of Stacy Schaffer Counseling.

where she specializes in grief therapy and synergistic play therapy. With advanced training and EMDR and a deep commitment to helping families heal, Stacy blends compassion, expertise, and play to create lasting change. Get ready for an inspiring and insightful conversation. Welcome, Stacy.

Stacy Schaffer (02:08)
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Jen (02:10)
Yes,

I'm so excited for our conversation. Let's get into it. What is your origin story?

Stacy Schaffer (02:18)
Well, I mean, since you asked, it's a thing. So I am originally from Las Vegas, Nevada, which is not my fault. I just showed up on the scene. And I'm an only child. And my mom was a single mom until I was 10. She married my stepdad, who was wonderful. But I...

In the time frame of about three to 10, I was being sexually abused by an uncle. And the hardest part of that, to be honest with you, is that I remember trying to communicate to my mom as a toddler what was happening. And my mom had no interest in hearing that and shut that down. It was like, that can't be happening. And so much of that is...

obviously because of her unprocessed trauma, but that is a significant milestone when I look back at my origin story because, you know, the language of a three-year-old is not that advanced. But I remember that was when I started to feel like I am in this great big world alone. Like there's no one coming for me. And so when my stepdad joined the scene, he was like, there's...

something kind of wrong with this kid. Like she's like spends time in a closet in the dark. That's a little weird. ⁓ And so it was, you know, like they ⁓ found support and then it was, you know, revealed what was happening. There was a whole court case of 10 years old testifying. And that was back in the day when we thought it was a good idea for kids to testify. ⁓ And so, yeah, like what? And so that

Jen (04:07)
Same.

Stacy Schaffer (04:12)
meanwhile, my mom had, developed breast cancer. And so my mom, and I, I'm sure that there's wisdom in what happened, but, um, it doesn't exactly feel like that, but my mom had arranged when I was 11 in the middle of the night to like, technically the term was called kidnapping. Um,

like paid four grown men to come take me to this facility in Utah. And my mom's explanation in the letter they read me was that I wanted you to have a place to like heal from what happened with your uncle and ⁓ space because of this cancer. ⁓ But I was there for a year in this facility in Utah. And I would say that that is the absolute worst part of my story.

And so I worked really I work really hard at being trauma-informed with how I talk about it because it was really bad. It was really bad but I emerged from that place in Utah and That is when I became what I like to describe a shiny So my mom she was she she was in the process of dying and I was like

You know what? Like, no one can hurt you if you're the most, like, well-behaved, the most fun to be around, like, the kid who gets good grades, like, do all the shiny things. So, but it was really incongruent because meanwhile, I'm like, I have all this going on, right, inside from the stuff I'd been through, but I shoved it down real, real deep, real deep.

And as we know, like it comes back anyway. And so moving from my mom, she ended up dying of breast cancer. And my stepdad, he fell in love with another woman who moved in three days later. And so, I mean, whatever. I was already out of the home. I'm at that

And so I knew that I wanted to be a therapist because that seems like way easier to help other people than to deal with what's going on in here. ⁓ so ⁓ anyway, I knew that what I wanted to be was who I absolutely needed when I was a kid. And so that's always like in the front of my brain of like every kid that's in front of me, like, you know,

it's also helping younger me to get what she deserved because she she didn't have sport she needed. So that's kind of the longer version of the outline. And here we are.

Jen (07:04)
Wow, yeah, a lot to unpack, huh? Yeah, and I share the similar situation of going through the court system after going through the trauma of being abused. And I think a lot of people don't realize that once a child is taken from an abuser that it's all over. Like, okay, they're better now. They're not being abused anymore. But we have so many, yeah. So we have so many other traumas that happened to us after that. And court is...

Stacy Schaffer (07:06)
Yeah!

Right. Yeah, they're like healed. Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Jen (07:32)
absolutely one of those big ones for me. ⁓ They didn't believe me because I came out later with my own abuse when my brothers who were older had told of their abuse. So they made me go in front of a grand jury and talk about all the sexual abuse that happened to me that I remembered. And yeah, it's so traumatizing and triggering. And what I ended up doing was I said, enough is enough, it's over.

Stacy Schaffer (07:34)
Absolutely.

Jen (08:00)
I am throwing this in the back of my head and it's not coming out ever. Right? And that's not helpful.

Stacy Schaffer (08:05)
Yes. Yeah, I can connect with that. Yeah, I can

connect with that because like it's almost like, you know, like the kid who's really bad at hiding like under the sheet, like you can't see me and you're like, but I do.

Jen (08:20)
Yeah, yes, absolutely. And the other thing is betrayal. My God, we go, when children are betrayed by the people who are supposed to be caring for them, and it wasn't just the abuser, it was also a parental figure that was betraying you by not listening or not watching.

Stacy Schaffer (08:24)
Ugh.

Yeah, the research

shows that the response of the first person or caregiver that hears that information can have a deeper impact than the abuse itself. like, yeah, for sure. Like that moment, that snapshot in time, so painful, so painful. And I remember thinking, one day you'll know, one day you'll know, and one day she did. And so...

how sad that is for younger us. And I always say to parents when I have kids that there's abuse that's come up from another relative and a parent saying to me, sobbing, how did I miss this? And I wish I would have seen it. And I was like, but what you did do? The first time they said something to you, you showed

up do you know how big that is? You know because that I mean I was like you've changed the course of their history right? We're in this world we're gonna have lots of bad things that happen to us but there's opportunities for healing in those kind of moments so I'm like you know you listen to your kid like here's an award big fan.

Jen (10:01)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. My oldest son also had mental health issues throughout his childhood. And I got him all the kind of things that he needed. And people were saying to me, wow, you're such a great mom. And I'm like, I'm a mom. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, right? So it was nice that people were like, you're such a great mom doing these things for you. But I also was thinking, isn't that what you

Stacy Schaffer (10:22)
Right.

Jen (10:31)
do, you know? Right. my mom, I think she knew, but when it was put in front of her, she did the 180 of, OK, let's everybody get into therapy. Let's everybody get into the things that we need to do. And yeah, I did go inpatient, maybe not wanting to when I was a kid. But it sounds like the treatment center that you went to was that.

Stacy Schaffer (10:31)
You're right! Like that's of the job, guys!

Jen (11:00)
in inpatient hospitalization or was it something different?

Stacy Schaffer (11:03)
Um, it was, so when I, when I was 10 and, um, like I went into like an inpatient hospitalization, um, place and that's where they literally handed me, um, a pile of paperwork and was like, has anyone ever touched you? And I was like, yeah, I mean, it was 1989. Um, and so that, that was in that period. It was no more than a week, but the Utah one, um, it's like now.

these kind of things are all over the news, but it was advertised as a residential treatment center. And like there's documentaries and things on these kind of places. ⁓ And there was a lawsuit, they're because a kid told their parents and they believed them. I didn't say a word until about a decade ago about what happened. Because I like.

I've seen how you behave when I try to tell you something, so, I know. And there wasn't enough safety around to deal with it. So it wasn't, it was about a decade ago that I started talking about it, but there was a lawsuit because a kid in Texas told his parents, because it was a whole chain, a whole chain, and they believed him. And so they went to a lawyer and then people started coming forward. But.

What I find frustrating is that the lawsuit was about money laundering and how like that was handled. And that was like the big crime when, really they're in my opinion, more heinous things that happen, not that that's great. And so I know that the facility I was at like shut down, but it was like a parent corporation that had lots of these horrible places, you know, that like,

we have awareness of now. ⁓ But in the 90s, people were like, I guess my mom saw an ad in Sunset magazine that was like, are you worried about your kid? Like, here's a place, ⁓ which is its own thing, right? But that's what it was.

Jen (13:16)
Yeah, and I ask it because I think it's important for parents to understand that there's a difference.

Stacy Schaffer (13:21)
yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah,

Jen (13:23)
that

these treatment quote treatment centers aren't in the best interest of your children.

Stacy Schaffer (13:29)
yeah, like I think that, a lot of times, that it is with very good intentions. I don't know how diligent my family was about checking into things, but I, like, I want to believe that, and that nobody really knew what it was like there and that I don't believe it would.

Happened again in the same way, but it did.

Jen (13:59)
And then another thing I want to touch on is your desire to become a therapist. My brother, who went through horrible abuse by our abuser, he became a psychologist and works with vets with PTSD. Something that's very similar, who have gone through things that are a similar thing of what we've gone through.

Stacy Schaffer (14:15)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that like you have that like ache inside of you to like make a better world and there's there's lots we know there's lots of ways pathways to go with trauma, right? That you know, that's where just so much addiction comes from I knew that I I deserved better

me that I deserve better. And so I'm you know, there are kids that are hurting all the time because they live in this world. And I want to give them better than I had. And so and also, I think I have a lot of friends who are therapists for adults. And they all tell me the stuff they're talking about is from childhood.

Right? that's where their origin stories are happening. So I like to think that I'm helping to be one of the pieces of the puzzle of shifting that origin story.

Jen (15:25)
And you're doing great work in that sense. It's very difficult to find child psychologists and therapists right now. It took me months to find one for my son. And insurance doesn't pay for it. it's so important that you're doing this specific job because it's so needed. You're right. Parents are realizing earlier that their children are struggling.

Stacy Schaffer (15:40)
Yeah

Yeah.

Jen (15:53)
or having issues.

Stacy Schaffer (15:53)
Right, right,

right. ⁓ And I actually am an insurance provider ⁓ and it's a nightmare, but it's because there are very few that are still willing to do that. But there's just so much inequity in mental health care, well, in health care in general. ⁓ But it's a really hard field. Like I ⁓ say to people, know, it's not a slow time in children's mental health.

Jen (16:02)
Mm-hmm.

Stacy Schaffer (16:22)
And but I just I think it's just so beautiful that like we're so busy Because it's not that there are more issues. It's the the adults are paying attention I'm like, yes, please You know, I always say in my intakes like what would that been like to have a therapist when you were 10 and they're like Yeah, would it change everything? everything like if

Jen (16:43)
Right, right. And

I know that for me and for my children, they struggled with having a therapist. It was, don't want to do this. This is not what I want to do with my time. When I was in patient, when I was in high school, I was like, all I want to do is go outside and have a cigarette. I don't need to be sitting here talking to someone. But it's so incredibly important.

Stacy Schaffer (16:53)
Be sure.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Mmm.

Jen (17:13)
And my mother, when I was going into college, she basically made me keep a therapist. She was like, I won't help you in college if you don't continue to have therapy. And I thought to her, my God, I can't believe you're doing this to me. You're making me do this. And guess what? I'm doing it for my kid.

Stacy Schaffer (17:30)
Mmm.

Absolutely and that I also think it in my opinion I think like every good therapist at some point should be seeing their own therapist and so I like I'm actively seeing mine and I wrote about some of those things too, but it's important to me that when it's appropriate that kids know ⁓ and so like one gets it to me like do you think I'm crazy because I'm in therapy and I'm like

What? And I was like, did you know that like you have a grand therapist? And they're like, what? And I'm like, you have a great grand therapist too. ⁓ But like that, that I'm just like, I'm like, are you kidding? Life is hard. And I was like, I take care of myself so I can show it better for you. ⁓ And I was like, I think it's beautiful. But I will say that the stigma of therapy is changing a lot.

Jen (18:10)
You

Stacy Schaffer (18:31)
like in the current generations, they're like, they wear like a badge of honor. They're like, yeah.

⁓ And that's saving lives. That is literally saving lives.

Jen (18:39)
It is.

And what I tell all people, not just children, is that a therapist is a third party. You get to talk about whatever you want and it's not going anywhere in your life, right? It only stays with your therapist and they understand because they've worked on this. They are there just for you, not for your mother, not for your sister or brother, not for your cousin. They're there for you.

Stacy Schaffer (18:59)
Right?

Right, yeah. they're, I mean, I think they love that. Sometimes kids test that with little things like stealing a lollipop or like you can't tell, can you? ⁓ And so, yeah, you're right. I'm not gonna tell anyone. Except on a podcast at some point, but you're anonymous and no one will figure out that it's you. And so, yeah, like having that safe space, because it's hard out there. It's so hard out there.

And so I think that it is like, it's a high priority for me to continue to do my own work. Cause the whole line, like you couldn't only take people as far as like you're willing to go. I think it's true. I practice what I preach. I'm not going to like have a kid try to be vulnerable when I'm not currently practicing that. Like that's, that's not who.

Jen (20:00)
Yeah, so how did you get around to synergetic play therapy? What is it? First of all.

Stacy Schaffer (20:05)
Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, Synergetic Play Therapy, which is also known as SPT, um, it was created by Lisa Dion and she is local. And so, um, in, I knew of her cause she is a play therapy educator and, um, there was a time, it was like pre COVID, it was like 2017, um, that

there it was like this certification process like in SPT and people were flying here from other places and I was like, well, she's like 40 minutes away. And so it definitely my training in that and the development there. still sometimes meet with my supervisor from that program because again, doing your own work, right? And so was like a nine month certification.

And then like at the facility and then there were like it's really big now people started getting awareness and then COVID happened. And so I think it was helpful to in some ways for that to expand because now I believe it's in every continent. And so people like are, you know.

chiming in from everywhere to get certified in SPT. I get emails a lot specifically looking for an SPT therapist. ⁓ And so it was probably the most important professional decision.

Jen (21:36)
And what is Synergy to Play therapy?

Stacy Schaffer (21:39)
Yeah,

yeah, it's super, it's super involved. But like one of the best ways I can describe it, it is about therapist authenticity ⁓ and congruence. Those are like two, like some of the fundamental pieces. ⁓ And so part of the idea, because it's kind of like it's blending like, like neuroscience awareness. So part of the idea is that a kid comes in and without intending to

they're setting you up to feel the way they feel. And so, or they're projecting that on the toys. So let's say they're doing something in the sand that's like, that's really scary. It's important for therapists to check in with themselves where old school theory is like you check yourself at the door and you're kind of a bit of like a robotic therapist, the same, you know, whatever, but SBT like uses who you are as a person.

So you check in and you're like, wow, that does feel really scary. And so one of the models would be like, you would say, wow, I'm actually feeling kind of scared. And my kids will look up at you and say, yeah, it's scary. And so it is like being in touch. It's being aware of what's going on with you so that you can pick up more of what's going on with a kid.

Because a threat to the brain, we learned at SBT, ⁓ like is incongruence. And so if I am like, present at the door and say like, yeah, like things are good. Yeah, how are you? Like that doesn't land well for a kid's nervous system because that's fake. And it's just an older model of like, you know, you're not necessarily a person.

like you're a therapist or you're in a little box. SBT allows you to be more of who you are so that it can help a kid be more of who they are.

Jen (23:45)
Okay. Does it work differently for kids who are, say, neurodivergent or kids who have trauma?

Stacy Schaffer (23:52)
Yeah, it's like it's useful in all of the capacities. Yeah, I mean I think because what like what a kid is coming in and a teenager coming in is like do you see me? Like do you see me? And so I think you know now like I've been in the field longer enough. I can pick up things pretty fast. But I have a lot of kids like that are that are on the spectrum that just that sees things like different, but they want to be known too.

⁓ And so I think that it is, ⁓ it's a lot about reading the kid in front of you and not the kid you read about in a textbook. It's like, who are you? Show me who you are. And so like one of the things I talk about a lot is ⁓ saying to a kid, help me understand what it's like to be you. ⁓ Because I always tell kids, you know, because I do specializing grief. So I have, you know,

I stories, I know some Greek. But I will say to them, here's what I want you to know. I will never say to you, I understand how you feel, because no one fully understands how you feel. But you will hear me say, I can connect to that piece of your story. And here's how. Because I think people tune out, we're like, yeah, I understand, because like, you know.

this thing happened to me. You know, like when my mom died, like someone told me that they got it because their gerbil just died. And I was like, yeah, it's a little different.

Jen (25:33)
Isn't that interesting? ⁓ I've spoken before about how everyone's pain is different but may feel the same. ⁓ But I think that that's kind of important. It sounds like that's something that you do. Let me know if I'm wrong. With the SPT, it's ⁓ connecting with the emotions of the child. And with you not saying that I understand how you feel,

Stacy Schaffer (25:55)
Yes. Yes.

Jen (26:01)
you're giving that child the opportunity to share more. Okay.

Stacy Schaffer (26:06)
Right, right. Like to tell

you, you know, because they're like, they're like, you haven't already made your mind up about who I am and like what I deal with. because I'm, you every kid's different. My most favorite thing, I haven't seen New Clients well, but ⁓ when I meet a kid for the first time and they're very timid ⁓ and then that moment when they realize like, ⁓ wait, like she's got a...

but she's a little short, so she's not threatening. But that moment, like I live for that moment when it switches, you know, and they're like, you can see it. And they're just like, okay, this is maybe not so bad. So I love that because I don't think as a kid, if someone had read, you know, there was much less literature obviously about like sexual abuse.

Jen (26:49)
You

Stacy Schaffer (27:02)
someone had read something and they're like, ⁓ kids are like, like, I don't think that I would have fit in those boxes. And that's why it's really, really important to me to also focus on the kids who are not on fire. ⁓ Because I see lots of siblings of kids that are. ⁓ And that to me, I think is just such great awareness on the parents part.

Because on the on the surface like they're doing all the things But like the parent has enough awareness to know there's probably stuff lingering on the surface like I saw one yesterday and The sibling was having quite the moment in my waiting room and ⁓ The little kid was talking about ⁓ how that's hard and scary

And I was like, yeah, like that's hard and scary but like that kid like a teacher Would be like that kid's fine, which he is But he also like has his own things and so

Jen (28:08)
Yes, yeah,

with my oldest, my youngest, he did have a lot of things that went on in his mind and how he felt. And he has memories that are upsetting to him, right? And yeah, you're right, those kids that aren't the ones that are the main focus also need the help because they're most likely struggling as well.

Stacy Schaffer (28:27)
Yes,

yes, and so I'm really passionate about that because like I I wouldn't have been like identified in a lineup as needing help. I needed, Jen let me tell you I needed some help. ⁓ And so yeah, I just have so much respect for parents that like bring their kids to counseling and they always like say to me on the phone like I'm afraid I ruined my kid.

Jen (28:43)
Mm-hmm, same, same.

Stacy Schaffer (28:57)
And I'm always like, so your kid is being raised by humans. First off, let's start there. But second, like, do you see what a big deal it is that like you want your kid to have support? My opinion, I am in mental health, but I think everyone needs mental support. But I'm like, let's see, it's just, I want parents to feel proud that they're giving a gift and that it's not a marker of bad parenting. It's the opposite. So that's important.

Jen (29:11)
Yes.

Yes, yes. So with SPT, and I keep wanting to call it STP for Stone Temple Pilots, but SPT, so can you use this with other modalities? Okay.

Stacy Schaffer (29:28)
Yeah

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

⁓ I do a lot of sand. I don't know if you know much about sand tray therapy. Essentially, ⁓ I have my friend Dave made it for me. ⁓ It just looks like a coffee table, but it's gutted. And in order to do, when you take the top off, in order to do authentic sand tray, it's a special kind of sand.

Jen (29:41)
it's like playing in with the sand. Okay.

Stacy Schaffer (29:58)
that sensory, and then I also have in my office, it looks like every Happy Meal toy exploded, ⁓ but they're organized in family groups. And the idea is that sand helps create a 3D image of the brain. so there's a million different directives, but one is pick a character that represents you, show me what life is like for you at school.

Jen (30:04)
Hahahaha

Stacy Schaffer (30:27)
⁓ And so I had this kid once really had conflict divorce pick a tiny mouse as mom and a Darth Vader as dad and I was like And so the one that the child chooses them I'm like tell me what this one is feeling so it's like a step removed and then you can say things like ⁓ What is that character what is that character wish was true?

You know, and there's just, there's so many good things to do with it. I did a training with Lisa Dion about ⁓ specifically San Trey and I was the volunteer because you know, whatever. And I was supposed to pick what a current challenge looked like in my life. And I was like, that's really helpful. I'm like, yeah, why don't I do something. And so it's like with sand and SBT.

Like you're checking what your reaction is. know, you're like, I'm like, wow, that seems like a lot of chaos, you know, or like there's lots of guns or what, whatever. There's lots of things. And so that, that you're, you're saying like, I'm connecting with what you're doing. You're, you're tracking. And so I think that sense of attunement is like super important in SVT because a lot of times we don't have a lot of people attuned to us.

especially kids, you know? They're like, be quiet and do your math, you know? And so that I'm just like, I'm seeing what you're doing and it looks like we're playing, but it's more. And so, yes. So it's all about connection.

Jen (32:07)
And it also says you use EMDR, which is one of my favorites. Yeah.

Stacy Schaffer (32:10)
Yeah, yeah, I was trained

in EMDR and I have I have a game that my friend Maya who's really into EMDR I'm really good at it. She told me but it's like it's an EMDR game and then you just you travel down it ⁓ I I think for for kids I have ⁓ I have little tiny like wristbands so that they can still have their hands free ⁓ and like and do other things but

Yeah, think EMDR is not for everyone, but I think for certain populations of kids. I use it in moderation also, because it's whole thing, you know, it's involved.

Jen (32:53)
Yeah.

Yeah. And to just describe it to listeners, for EMDR, why I use EMDR is because of my trauma. ⁓ My therapist uses the light bar. There's a light bar that makes ⁓ the pattern of the light go back and forth. There's also buzzers that you can hold in your hand. And what it does is changes the neurons, like creates new neuropathways ⁓ and helps to lessen the ⁓ effect.

Stacy Schaffer (32:57)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Jen (33:22)
is how I see it, but as an adult. So I'm not quite sure how that translates to children.

Stacy Schaffer (33:22)
Yeah!

Yeah, I always say, I know that's all that is definitely accurate. I explain it to them as like some of the yucky stuff that's happened. It's like kind of trapped at like the base of your skull and what the like you enjoyed the buzzers like it helps move it to the front part of your brain so that you can think about it different. So it doesn't make the thing go away because nothing can make the thing go away. No one's telling you to just forget about it. It'd be nice.

But like it helps you see it in a different way so that it doesn't feel as scary.

Jen (34:03)
what would you say to a parent who is struggling with not understanding their children, their emotions, and ⁓ think that their children are struggling?

Stacy Schaffer (34:14)
Yeah, I mean, I always think that it's really important like work to get as much support as you can. Because I know a lot of different parent groups that they're like, you're not alone. And I think that's true of just groups in general. ⁓ But like, I think that and that's part of why like, I just wrote a book that like came out in April. ⁓ Because the intention was

that not everyone has the luxury of being able to take their kids to counseling. know, like it is a luxury. ⁓ And so some parents that would hear me say that would say, no, it's a necessity. And I'm like, okay, but you know, not everyone has access. And so I wrote a book because there were so many common things that were like, that were true on this side of the couch.

that I'm like that I want that to translate to the greater world because the rule you know in my office with how I keep everyone happy with kids and teens is that you know like I won't say what you said unless you know you're gonna hurt yourself someone else will hurt you ⁓ and I'm like but your parent is gonna want to know what's happening in here so I'll either tell them something I said we can bring them in and you know if something's in the gray area I don't

hold that like we figure out a way to tell them but but there are a lot of things that don't fall in any of those categories right like ⁓ like passive aggressive behavior I hate it when my mom like says she's not mad and she's sighing and she's slamming the doors right and so I would say

I would love for us to have a conversation with mom. And they're like, no, no, no, no, because she'll just say, no, I'm the worst mom ever. And like, then I'll feel bad and she'll feel bad and it'll be bad. Whereas, you know, and so because of the parameters of like a safe space, some of those things don't always get translated, you know? like, and those kinds of things happen a lot. And so there's one of my chapters in the book is called, they're all hashtags, but it's like,

hashtag from the other side and it's like the other side of the couch. And the subtitle is what kids wish grownups knew. And so a lot of that is in there because there's just a lot of patterns. Again, they're all being raised by humans. And so my hope is that people can glean from the book things that could help them. That was the whole idea.

Jen (36:58)
Yeah, yeah, tell us more about the book.

Stacy Schaffer (37:00)
It is called With Love From a Children's Therapist, Hashtag Lessons I've Learned Along the Way. And so it is part, you know, because there's lots of lessons gleaned from my own origin story, as aforementioned. So it's ⁓ like, getting nuggets of wisdom from my childhood that, like, I can take and, like, at least use it somehow.

⁓ And my thoughts as a clinician for about 20 years and working with youth before that, that I'm like there needs to be something that is helpful to parents that is it some of the same things that we read like, you know, make sure that you have boundaries like, okay, we know. And so my hope was to have a little bit more involved ⁓ information.

from not only like a survivor, but someone who's like listening to kids all day long every day. And so that was a lot of the intention behind the book.

Jen (38:09)
You mentioned having, ⁓ talking with the parents and sometimes they have pushback. That's really interesting to me because our generation's parents would most definitely pushback. Like, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm 100 % biggest, most mentally healthy person in this universe. But do you have parents who are like, I need help too.

Stacy Schaffer (38:22)
yeah.

⁓ yeah, all the time. I adore the majority of the parents that like come in and that they're like, I mean, I one, say they wanted to meet and it was like, it was around like the LGBTQ issue and they wanted to make sure they were responding appropriately and ⁓ were feeling worried that they didn't. And I'm like, did you read my book yet? Because I talk in there about a story about

it not being handled well. And so I like I outlined it was like, so there's this and their eyes got big. And I'm like, so don't sit here and tell me that you're screwing up your child. Like when we're here meeting together and you're like, please help me. And so yeah, I, I one of the moms that I see, the teenager, the mom was like, can I talk to you and was like, I read your book and there are things that I can relate to and I think I need

my own therapist. so, I mean, that's changing generations and in my opinion, that's only going to help. And I was like, that's awesome, like plenty of resources for you. And so, yeah, I think that, yeah, I just, have mad respect for parents who bring their kids to counseling. They want a better life for their kid than they had.

Jen (39:53)
Yeah.

Right,

right, exactly. Breaking those generational curses. And it's so important and something that when I knew that I was going to become a mother, was like, that's what I need to do. There are so many generational traumas that are coming down. I need to break those now. And of course, I'm sure I created other generational traumas on my kid. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But also, you know, I think it's important for

Stacy Schaffer (40:02)
Yes.

Yes.

Cuz human you too fall in the human category.

Jen (40:24)
parents to understand that they also need their own toolbox, their own coping skills toolbox, because how can we help our children if we're not helping ourselves as well?

Stacy Schaffer (40:28)
Yes.

And I think about that like when I was like trying to ⁓ a while ago like adopt a different dog and I didn't have from the rescue like I didn't have the size fence that they would release to and I'm like it's harder to get a dog than to be sent home with a baby. You know what I mean? Like that you're just like okay, ⁓ all right, we should probably do better by our kids by something. know, there's just, there's, there's not.

Jen (40:53)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Stacy Schaffer (41:05)
like a one size training manual. There's lots of books, but there's so many complex issues.

Jen (41:13)
Yeah. Well, Stacy, tell us where we can find you.

Stacy Schaffer (41:18)
Oh, so my website is authorstacyschaffer.com. So that's authorstacyschaffer.com. authorstacyschaffer.com. there's like a contact me like form on there that the publishing company sent to me.

I am based out of Arvada, Colorado. So I'm a suburb of Denver.

Jen (41:54)
Do you do any social medias? great.

Stacy Schaffer (41:56)
I do! I

am on Instagram as Hope Restored, which once upon a time I was going to name my practice that because I like the thought of it, but I was told that Stacy Schaffer is kind of catchy. And so Stacy Schaffer counseling, but I'm on Instagram as Hope Restored and then I'm on Facebook as my name with me on a little surfboard because I'm a big fan of surfing.

Jen (42:22)
Nice. And all of that will be in the show notes. Yes, absolutely. Stacy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom about our children's mental health.

Stacy Schaffer (42:25)
Fantastic!

Thank you for having me. This is super fun.

Jen (42:35)
Yes, yes, I'm so glad that we're able to have the conversation. Thanks.

Stacy Schaffer (42:38)
Yay. Thank you.

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (42:43)
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the podcast. This show is produced by Phoenix Freed LLC and I'm your producer, Jen Ginty. We hope you found today's conversation inspiring. Thank you for joining us for this episode of the podcast. This show is produced by Phoenix Freed LLC and I'm your producer, Jen Ginty. We hope you found today's conversation insightful and inspiring. If you have a story of your own about when a not yet moment became right now,

We encourage you to reach out and share it. You can find more information about being a guest on our show at whennotyetbecomesrightnow.com. Remember, you are not alone on your journey, whether it's a journey of healing, growth, or transformation. Every story matters. Thank you for listening, and we'll catch you next time with another inspiring episode.