Creating the Pathway to Emotional Fitness with Shaun Zetlin

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (00:00)
Welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now, the podcast where we dive deep into the moments of transformation, the times when not yet shifts into right now and everything changes. I'm your host, Jen Ginty, and this podcast is all about those pivotal moments in our life journeys. You know the ones, when the hesitation fades, when we take that first step, even if it feels like a leap. It's in these moments that growth and healing begins. Each episode will explore stories of resilience,

moments of clarity, and the sparks that ignite real change. From personal experiences to expert insights, we'll uncover how people navigate the complex journey we call life and come out stronger on the other side. Whether you're searching for that spark in your own life or just curious about how change unfolds for others, you're in the right place. We'll discuss the ups and downs, the breakthroughs and setbacks, and how to embrace the right now, even when it feels out of reach. Because sometimes,

The hardest part of the journey is realizing that the moment you've been waiting for has already arrived. So take a deep breath, settle in, and let's get started.

Jen (01:09)
Hello and welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now. I'm here with a super special guest today and his name is Shaun Zetlin and I'm gonna introduce him. Shaun has spent over two decades transforming lives by redefining what it means to be truly strong. After overcoming a lack of confidence and a series of personal traumas as a young boy, Shaun turned his pain into purpose.

For 21 years, he's led a thriving personal training and emotional fitness business in the New York City metro area, helping clients from all walks of life, from new moms to elite athletes achieve their health goals with tailored fitness programs and deep emotional support. Shaun is a five-time best of Brooklyn personal trainer, a nationally recognized speaker, and the author of the acclaimed Push-Up Progression series.

His newest book, Emotional Fitness, is a powerful guide to building inner strength through movement, helping readers tap into their emotional power by connecting it to physical discipline. With his mission rooted in empathy, education, and empowerment, Shaun is here to help us all become stronger inside and out. Welcome, Shaun.

Shaun Zetlin (02:23)
Thank you for having me. I'm so honored to be here. Hey.

Jen (02:26)
you're here.

So let's get into it. Tell us your origin story.

Shaun Zetlin (02:31)
Okay, I'm so honored to tell it. So I'll take you back to when I was a child. I was born with club feet and I had stirrups up to my knees like Forrest Gump. Unfortunately, I didn't have a Jenny. And so I had to go through it alone. My parents put me in gym classes that were for special needs kids to learn how to encourage their motor skills, but it just, wasn't happening for me. I tried so hard, I wanted to catch a ball, but these things were very difficult for me.

That really led right from the bat not to be too heavy with just some teasing. And when you're a boy, you know, want to feel that you can do physical things. It sort of defines your confidence at the time. And then for me, I wasn't able to do those things. And then that led to an incident camp that really was life-changing for me, where my brother and my father were very good athletes. And my brother is at this particular camp with me. And I've been telling this on my tour right now where it's kickball.

and there's lots of kids to my left and there's lots of kids to my right. And the counselor slowly rolls the ball toward me, to his credit, and I miss the ball completely, Jen, and I fall on my back. And everybody laughs, except for my brother. But the counselors all laugh as well. There were four of them. And one of the counselors said, what a loser! And everybody laughed even harder. And in that moment, I realized something about myself that

Jen (03:53)
Ugh.

Shaun Zetlin (03:59)
Even as a young kid, like I always say to my clients and patients, if you have 1 % inner will, there's just 1 % inner will and you can make change. And in that moment, I realized something. I can go two different directions with my life. I can believe everybody. I can have a new belief system of myself, which would be really not worthiness, right? I would be considered to be unworthy because that's how I started defying myself then by my physical ability. Or I can work hard.

I can sort of change again, you my landscape. can change, let's say, the trajectory of my life by working hard to not believing mentally what these people were saying about me at the time, and then physically working harder to be, let's say, the person I want to be physically. And so that for me was a life-changing moment. I was 11 years old. And during that time, I mean, I had a series of other traumas that occurred, to be personally honest with you. I mean, there was some sexual abuse that was also lined in there, which I like to be honest about.

And so I really had sort of my back up against the wall. And I remember thinking to myself in that moment, there were other kids who maybe didn't have my physical abilities that also were being bullied for different ways. And I've always been an empath. think I was just sort of born that way and hardwired that way. But I knew if I could just somehow muster up the courage to change my own life, even if it's a young boy, I could help others. was almost like humbly like a leader sort of inside of me.

And from there, I asked my dad to help me with, he was a professional bodybuilder, so I asked him to help me when it came to just learning the ropes of fitness, which was fantastic. And ⁓ I got the basics down. But I still had, I'll be honest, I still had this sort of cloud of anxiety that I didn't really know what it was. I couldn't define it. I just knew I wasn't present. I knew it was still hurting my confidence. ⁓ And it was sort of always there, like sort of like that little monkey on your shoulder. And then in high school,

a bunch of my friends were trying out for the plays, all the musicals. And I was sort of running with that crowd. And I liked the idea of everybody come together and forming a team. At the same time, I was working so hard, as I mentioned, where I was like becoming, I sort of fell in love with baseball. It was very helpful for me when it came to my own traumas. There was something soothing about it. It was sort of like a gentleman's sport kind of thing, right?

And I was trying out for the baseball team. And so I had to make this decision where I was getting to be awfully good. would spend hours in cage. My brother was so sweet, you know, feeling grounders to me day in and day out. So I had this opportunity, Jen, where was like, do I stick with athletics or do I try to make something of myself again, you know, knowing my history? Or do I venture out in something like musical theater, which it's an opportunity to be somebody else, which was kind of appealing also to me at that time, especially with all my friends were doing. And so I chose musical theater and I was...

fortunate enough to get a lot of lead roles in high school. And from there, I sort of carried that on into college and I moved to New York thinking I'm going to be an actor. And I tried my hand at acting. I was in ⁓ some independent movies and I was on the show. So I did, had some, some minor success, you could say. And then I was helping a friend at the gym workout. And I just knew the basics from my dad. wasn't certified. And he kept saying to me, you're so patient and you're so kind and you're really helping me.

And that's when again, that aha moment happened, you know, again, just with the premise of your show, when you know, when not yet becomes right now. And I thought, maybe I don't want to be an actor. Maybe I want to be a personal trainer to help people not suffer the way I did.

Jen (07:30)
Yeah, it's an amazing story. And I understand the bullying side of things. I was fiercely bullied when I was in grade school myself. Coke bottle glasses, it was the 80s, so everybody had to be impossibly skinny and I was not. And so I was tortured as a kid. And I was actually talking with someone about

Shaun Zetlin (07:46)
Yes. Yes.

Jen (07:58)
I'm 50 years old now, my body is changing and going through the motions of getting older and I've gained a lot of weight. And I realized why I was freaking out about it so much was because I didn't want to go back to that teased child. Right? I did not want to hear in my head, you're fat and you're ugly. And my ⁓ abuser, he would...

Shaun Zetlin (08:02)
Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Jen (08:25)
pretty much every day tell me I was fat and ugly and no one would ever love me. And so getting to that point at this age and seeing that I can't control my body, which I'm sure you felt throughout your childhood as well. Like there's times where we can't take hold and be fully in control of ourselves, right?

Shaun Zetlin (08:49)
Yes,

it's a great point. when I was, you when I was 11 and, and, with my abuse, you know, I was an overweight kid and I had really loving grandparents that were, you know, very, very much showed their love through food. And because I wasn't athletic, I gained a lot of weight during those, that I left them years. And, and, that was hard for me because I couldn't defend myself physically, you know, ⁓ I also was always a pacifist and I never really was always about, mean, to me, you know, I always loved Martin Luther King Jr.

speakers like that. And so for me, I didn't really have a violent streak in me, of course, but I was an easy target because I was had a peaceful nature and I was overweight. Part of the reason why I also wanted to learn to strength train was so I could protect myself and not just my abuser also, but like everybody. I wanted to, I want nothing that I want to strike fear in my fellow man by any means, but I wanted to do things that I wanted to for the first time in my life, make it about me versus me because I, I listen one of, and then,

You know, it's so interesting because I'm sure you had done this with you on your own personal journey, knowing your backstory and all the work that you've done being on your path. It's really easy to go back and sort of demonize other versions of ourselves. One of things that I've had to do as I talk about emotional fitness or the reason why I've written the book to begin with is it was also a memoir to my former self. Instead of looking at that 11 year old boy with all the trauma and all the abuse to say, oh, you he really was a loser because he was bullied and picked on. And we have all these exhibits to show why.

It's the opposite. He was so strong. He brought me to this part. In fact, he brought me to this stage in my life right here in front of you. And so I've had to rewire my brain to think, you know, I was living in dogma. One of the master monsters in emotional fitness is believing you are worthy. I didn't believe I was worthy. I was believing in other people's belief systems, teachers even, counselors, of course, like I mentioned, caregivers. It wasn't...

Jen (10:30)
Okay.

Shaun Zetlin (10:36)
how I really saw myself. I just started believing in everybody else. Because when you're a kid, as you know, you're run by so much emotion, your brain is not fully formed in 26, 27. So again, you can have somebody tell you that you're all these things and you're going to believe it. And I just started believing everybody. And I wasn't really listening to myself. That's why I feel so grateful that there was that 1 % of me, as I mentioned during that kickball story, that still believed in myself. And then when I was writing Emotional Fitness, it was just like a flood of emotion that came out where I realized, oh my God, for 20 years, I mean, I thought,

this, as I mentioned, that monkey on my shoulder was really anxiety. It truly was an anxiety, believe it or not. It was untapped anger. It was just all of this suppressed anger, all the suppressed rage that I just was sort of this virtual and physical punching bag for so many people. ⁓ as I mentioned, teachers and counselors included, and it got to the point where I realized, wait a minute, I'm not all these things that these people say I am. They think that's their, that's their reality. That's not mine. That was so

Jen (11:12)
you

Shaun Zetlin (11:32)
for me to go back and love little Shaun unconditionally.

Jen (11:36)
Yes, yes. One of the things that I work on in my own therapy is we do internal family systems and learning to love little Jen and let little Jen know that it's okay. We're not there anymore, we're safe. And we deserve to be able to talk about what happened and to learn to love all our different parts.

Shaun Zetlin (11:44)
Yes.

Yes!

Yes, I used to so many times, Jen, think about myself like, I've been saying it honestly during this tour in front of all these people where I say, you know, I really wanted to kill off little Shaun. I went to race him. I moved to Brooklyn. I moved to New York City. I was, I really was, I said this humbly. I was comfortable with the way I looked. I was really proud of my muscular physique. No one's gonna know I was, again, all those things that I was in Delaware. And that was just so wrong.

That was just so wrong and I was believing again, as I mentioned earlier, in somebody else's version of me, not my true version of myself. And so really loving little Jen and really loving little Shaun, I have found it to be so therapeutic where I'm able to be vulnerable. Right? And that's just my hope. That's why I sort of like talk about abuse early on, or I talk about trauma early on. I think it's so important. And I know you feel the same way with this when you share your story, even if you can help one person, it's so worth it.

But I know that when I'm vulnerable with you, you're gonna be vulnerable right back. And I know when I'm honest with you, you're gonna be honest right back. And it's for me, my mission, whether it's somebody losing 20 pounds or somebody feeling good about themselves outside the workout, it's really for them to be their authentic self. That is what I keep searching for with everybody I meet, even on this tour with my clients on the day to day, hopefully some listeners here where it's, we want to always strive to be our authentic selves because our authentic selves

are so beautiful. It's your authentic self. It's the purest form of who you are. And that's my mission for myself, for everyone.

Jen (13:28)
Yes, yes, authenticity can be really hard. You know, you're hiding behind a facade. And as I grew up, of course, I was hiding secrets, but also, and I don't blame my mother for this, but she had her own trauma. It was better to look good than to feel good, right? We were supposed to be that perfect family in front of everyone, going to church and sitting in church and listening to how I was supposed to honor the person who was hurting me.

Shaun Zetlin (13:32)
Yes.

Yeah. Yes.

Yes!

Yes.

Jen (13:59)
And so I had to learn how to hide my authenticity and to hide intuition as well. I couldn't trust intuition because I never knew what my abuser would be doing next. How do you feel about intuition?

Shaun Zetlin (14:16)
I think intuition is truly everything in the sense of some of us are really blessed to have it. I think it's been something that has served me so well. ⁓ I go back to that 1 % again, where I feel that when I meet somebody for the first time, whether it's a new client or anybody in my life, or whether it's been in the world of theater or even athletics, my whole thing is when you meet somebody and you really, really meet them and you're really looking in their eyes where you know it's the gateway to the soul, where is that energy?

Right? Because we're all energy. We're all energy. And I've learned too that people that may say something rude to me now as an adult or maybe don't treat me the way I deserve to be treated, it's nothing to do with me. Maybe I'm a trigger to them, maybe I'm not. But the truth is it's about them and their own journey. And what I have found is for myself, when I come back to intuition and I'm learning about somebody for the first time, whether they're a friend or whether they're a stranger or they're somebody new in my life,

My goal for them is to give them the space to again, interact with me without judgment, but also at the same time when I'm meeting them and I'm getting to know their story even more, how did they handle again, their own work? Because for somebody that has been abused, if you don't handle your work, normally what happens is you take it out on somebody else. There are a few of us that, I mean, I can't speak to again,

you personally, but just the conversations that we've had, you're such an empathic, kind person. I would certainly bet my house on it that you didn't, after your abuser, you didn't go out there and try to ruin someone's day. You didn't go out to try to like, let's say, burn somebody's village, let's say. But there are plenty of people that do do that, right? I mean, I, I've been saying this also, and I think there's a lot of truth to it, where you take any superhero, you know, and you take any villain and it could be any story. It doesn't have to be.

something sort of, you know, like comic book like Batman and the Joker, but it could be any movie that you watch or any book that you read, right? The antagonist and the protagonist, right? They all usually suffer the same fate, right? And they all usually go through some similar traumas here. The difference is, is that the hero wants to help people and the villain wants to bring people down, right? And so I think it's really important to also use your intuition too when you meet somebody for the first time to say,

Okay, have they done the work? And if they haven't done the work, that's fine. And we know how hard it is. And as you mentioned, it is so difficult to be your authentic self. I mean, again, for the simple reasons of, my God, will I still be lovable? Right? Will somebody still love me unconditionally? think all the roads go back to there, right? But I like to ask myself, okay, if they're not willing to do the work, that is one thing and I can certainly accept that. But are they a vengeful person? Are they a toxic person? Are they unhealthy person? Are they going to be...

in my life in a positive way. And if they're not, I don't think I could have somebody in my life in that way because again, are morals and values don't align to mine.

Jen (17:11)
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you. you know, talking back more about authenticity, do you find that in your work that you run into people who are being truly authentic in the moment, or do you feel that there are more people that you work with that are scared of their authenticity?

Shaun Zetlin (17:12)
Yeah.

Well, it's a great question. I think it's a bit of both. I think not to stereotype by any means, but I think my male clients have a difficult time with authenticity where they're so worried about judgment and they're so worried about not being lovable. I think when people are vulnerable, right, the fear is again, as I mentioned earlier, are you lovable? Right. If I admit some deep dark secret and the things that happened to you and me, by the way, we're certainly not our fault. And we know that, but sometimes it was, they're hard things to share for the obvious reasons. And so we've already admitted so many wonderful things. I'm sure helping.

tons of people listening right now. So I think with my male clients, when I meet them for the first time, they won't describe anxiety, depression, addiction verbally to me. They'll sort of beat around it, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Now, to be fair, I do have some male clients that are very upcoming and up forth with their emotions and they'll say to me, they're depressed or they're anxious. And that's great. And that really helps me get to their physical goals as well for the obvious reasons. But I like to then share stories with them and to say,

I know what it's like to be an overweight kid. know what it's like to be bullied. I know what it's like to be picked on. know what it's like to be a trauma survivor and or suffer with anxiety. These things are really helpful, I think. Because again, really that's the human element because we're all, we all are fighting a fight. We're all are the underdog to some degree. For my female clients at the stereotype, they're a bit more vocal with their emotions, which is fantastic. I will say, one of the things on this particular tour that has just been the most thrilling thing for me, Jen,

is that whether I'm talking in front of 15 people or a hundred people, you know, live, when I'm done, I'll have people come to me individually and we'll share a quick tidbit. there are people, you know, it's so interesting because I'll have anywhere between like teenage boys who are mustering the strength and the courage to talk to me to like, you know, professionals who you would look at them and say, my God, like that's a really impressive job. Like I wonder what they did. Like you may, you may value what they do to some degree per se. But the point of that, the point of me even saying that is, that

It's all walks of life. doesn't matter how successful you are in your career because people can split clearly. But I find it really fascinating that all walks of life, everybody can identify with some sort of trauma. I use that word a lot. And I've been trying to explain to a lot of people that, because some of my clients will say, well, I didn't have the same trauma as you. And I'm saying, well, hold on. That doesn't matter because trauma is trauma. It was real to you. And trauma doesn't have to be the most horrendous things in the world.

Trauma can be that, you let's say a parent or a caregiver didn't give you the emotional response that you needed, right? You needed, that's trauma. That's also my mission on this tour to get people to understand that, again, trauma comes in many forms. It doesn't have to be the most violent thing in the world. And there's all these, and I think a lot of people don't agree, realize there are trauma survivors, like the people who are people pleasers in the world, the people who can't accept a compliment, the people who are so hardworking that don't want any help. I mean, the list goes on. These are all trauma responses.

And I'll say these things during my presentation. People say, my God, I can't believe it. And then they'll untap something subconsciously that they made buried for 20 years. And it's just like, I'm so glad I'm doing this. You know, I just feel, say that humbly, of course. So yeah, I think when it comes to meeting somebody for the first time, I like to present myself in a very authentic, vulnerable way where hopefully they'll feel the need and the want and desire to meet me halfway.

Jen (20:47)
That's beautiful. Absolutely. And the whole idea of traumas where people say they didn't have the same trauma as me, so how could they even talk to me about their trauma? You're 100 % correct. Everyone has something in their lives that changed them in a way that felt like trauma. And I don't even think I've told this story on the podcast, but...

Shaun Zetlin (21:09)
Yes.

Jen (21:14)
When I first started, when I ended up putting my abuser in prison, I was in college and I was at my dorm and a friend of mine came to visit me and I was sitting outside and back then I was a smoker and you know, like I was a punk rock girl. And you know, my roommate was sitting with me and she was complaining about a headache and I walked towards my friend who was coming to visit me.

Shaun Zetlin (21:28)
Mm-hmm.

Jen (21:44)
and she came to put her arms out to give me a hug. And my roommate immediately got in front of me and said, my God, my head is so bad. I have such a bad headache. And my friend said, well, you know, I'm here to see Jen. And, my roommate stepped aside and she's like, how can you stand that? That, you know, what you've gone through today and her headache. said, well, everyone has their own pain. Everyone has their own pain. And...

Shaun Zetlin (21:59)
Right.

Jen (22:11)
You know, our pain could feel like someone who sprained their wrist, right? In the same time,

Shaun Zetlin (22:18)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jen (22:19)
in the same day, it could be the exact same pain for people. So I feel like what you said is really important that people underscore things that they've been through in life because it wasn't abuse, because it wasn't, you know, something that could cause PTSD or complex PTSD.

Shaun Zetlin (22:40)
Yes, completely agree. And it's a really important message. It's a really important message because it also shows that particular person, well, it's a reminder, look how strong you are. Look how strong you were. And then we're back to again, you know, not demonizing little Shaun and little, you know, and little Jen to say, wow, I mean, you're again, your traumas, no matter how big, no matter how large, we're very mean to you and it brought you to this stage right now. Yeah.

Jen (23:05)
Yeah. So what brought you to create emotional fitness?

Shaun Zetlin (23:11)
it's a great question. for me, it was two parts. So I was seeing, still seeing my therapist of let's say 15 years now, and her name is Maryanne Santor and she's lovely. And I would go see Maryanne. ⁓ It started for me where again, it was again, just that monkey on my shoulder of anxiety where I knew I wasn't present. I knew I was living again, you know, and another, even though I was in Brooklyn and I was really enjoying my life and had great friends and great clients and great business and everything.

presently was great, like amazing. Like you couldn't find any red flags, but I didn't clean up my past. I didn't address any of these traumas. And as you know, if you don't address the traumas, eventually, you know, they come and they overtake you. And so it wasn't just so simple of saying like, just get over it, Shaun, you know, you have a great life. Now I knew I had to go back to clean it up. so a client of mine was a therapist at the time and I asked her she had a referral she could give me. And she said, I have a great fit, I think for you. And she was working with me professionally at the time.

So she recommended me to Mary Ann. And so I went to see Mary Ann and just lovely. It was the first time I've ever really worked with a therapist before. just, I feel very fortunate. It was the right fit from the start. I mean, like a glove. And I know sometimes it's always the case. I feel very fortunate in my case. And so what happened was like Mary Ann and I would talk and we would go over all the many traumas. And then I would go to gym. And at that time, it was before COVID. I was...

working out this particular gym where I wasn't training at, I didn't see clients at. And so I would either go, at that time I was either going to clients homes or I had, was renting space in Brooklyn Heights where I would just see my clientele. So this particular gym, didn't know anybody, which was great. So I could, maybe somebody might recognize me from the neighborhood, but I could just do, you know, my thing and not be interrupted or not. People wouldn't assume that I was a trainer. So during that time, during my workouts, I'm listening to music and I'm thinking about all the things that Mary and I talked about in that session.

And then I started making little notes, like texting myself, little notes. And these little notes started turning into these master mantras. And so I realized that, you I was doing things in the gym and I say this humbly that very few, let's say people could do, but then I also remembered my origin story of picking up a five pound weight, not being heavy. And here I am picking up like 120, 130 pound dumbbells and doing all these things with it. And so I thought, well, I don't, I'm not suffering anymore physically. I don't have to necessarily be worried about

being bullied or sexual abuse. can take care of myself and I protect myself, but what about the people that can't? also fitness has given me so much, it's given me a career. At that time I had helped thousands of clients already. I was writing, you know, I was doing all these things I wanted to do on beautiful podcasts like this and TV and all these things. But I knew that I had to do more. And at the time it was really scary.

Because when you said being authentic, being your authentic self, you know, is really, it's a paraphrasing, but that's tough. It's tough to do. And I did have judgment and fear. Like, what would my, what would the people think of me now in New York if I shared these stories? What would people from the past think? What would people just think in general? And I realized I can't care about that. It doesn't matter what those people think because this is a way to honor little Shaun and truly heal him at the same time.

maybe there is, let's just make up somebody's name, John, and maybe little John is suffering in Iowa somewhere and really needs to hear my voice, right? And so I just thought for that reason alone, I have to write this book. And so as I'm in the gym and I'm feeling all these things physically and sort of my own guinea pig, it gave birth to first the master mantras. And so there's five master mantras in emotional fitness. And I think they are very universal for everybody. The first one is accepting your path, which

I think is the hardest. I mean, they're all a bit subjective, but I think that's a very hard thing to do. I mean, you've been through unspeakable trauma. It's hard to accept that. I'm sure in the very beginning, I think for all of us, that's certainly speak for you by any means, but these are difficult things. And I used to think to myself, why me? Like, why did I have to go through all these things? But the truth is I had to go through all these things so I could be again, this version now talking to you. They can't have the yin without the yang per se. The second one is believing you are worthy, which to me was huge because I'll just, I'll say it quickly here where I was

Jen (27:12)
Yeah.

Shaun Zetlin (27:20)
I'm just living dogma. was living my life for decades through how other people had seen me. These were not my belief systems. These were other people's belief systems that I just kept believing about myself, which is terrible. The third master mantra is knowing you're empowered, which is so important because I was giving my power away. was, ⁓ you know, I, I, I wanted people to sort the people, the perpetrators, the abusers, there was ⁓ multiple ones in Delaware. I wanted them to heal me.

I wanted them to apologize. I was holding onto that. And then of course I've realized, as I'm sure you certainly have as well, it's not up to them to heal us. They can't anyway. It's up to ourselves to clean up that mess, which is a difficult, I think, the beginning to accept, but then it's also very empowering, right? And then the fourth one is lowering the volume. ⁓ The volume I refer to as trauma. And just how, for me, when I first saw Mary Ann, was just that anxiety was just buzzing in a very, very loud dial.

And then, you know, through her work and my work outside the sessions, as you know, trauma never goes away, but maybe that volume is at number 10. And then it's like, let's say at a one or two, right? Where you learn to ⁓ certainly live with it, but it doesn't define you, which is the biggest thing for me. It doesn't define you. And then the fifth thing is being, the fifth master mantra is being your biggest fan, which I like to joke and say, if people could get inside of your head and they heard the way you talk to yourself, would you have any friends, right? ⁓ It's really easy for us to be like,

Jen (28:45)
Mm-hmm.

Shaun Zetlin (28:48)
Stupid show and you forgot to like, you know, get on the podcast for Jen, whatever. I mean, like we all sort of do that from time to time and that negative self talk is really detrimental. And so I think it's really important. It's not arrogance. It's not arrogance. And I make that very clear to people where it's confidence. It's loving yourself unconditionally because I'm sure we all have that friend or that family member you would do anything for. But the minute it comes to yourself, do you love yourself the same? I find it very interesting that my clients will say this to me, friends.

People don't treat themselves the same way they do, let's say, their children or someone else that they love. It's very fascinating. So anyway, not to go into the deep dive with emotional fitness, but that's really just the sages of the book, these master mantras.

Jen (29:28)
Yeah, I love them. They're so important and they do really touch on the parts that we do need to focus on for ourselves. And you talking about the being the people pleaser, taking care of others more so than yourself. I lived my entire life that way. When I was little, I was taking care of my older brothers because of the abuse that we were having and taking care of my abuser.

Shaun Zetlin (29:30)
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yes.

Yes.

Jen (29:55)
And then moving on and continuing that throughout my entire life with never giving myself that love and compassion and support that I gave to so many other people in this world. And it's not like I want to take that back, never. I want to keep doing that, absolutely. But how do I focus on me? It's that right now moment that I came to when my brain said,

Shaun Zetlin (30:10)
Yes. No. Yes.

Jen (30:24)
Nope, you can't move forward until you start doing this for yourself. And I know there are just so many people out there who don't consider themselves in the whole grand scheme of their lives.

Shaun Zetlin (30:38)
Yes. Yes, it's so big. thank you for sharing that because that's really powerful. That's really powerful because whether you're a caregiver to an older brother or a parent or a child, it's really also important to separate too and say, okay, I'm an empath, but I'm not a codependent. And that's the other thing that I is really interesting because those, and I know you would agree with this, those are different. And that was hard for me because I was a pleaser as well when I first started with my clients back in 2003.

And you know, a client would text me like they had maybe a question on a routine or a question of an exercise or what to eat. And I was like, oh my God, I got to help them. And I know I got to drop everything. And, and, um, looking back on it, I hadn't done the work yet. hadn't seen Mary Ann, but I was, it was really easy for me to fall into that co-dependent role because looking back and I really wanted them to love me unconditionally. And I'll, and now I'm very proud to say to you, eye to eye, it's taken me years, but I can do it now. I'm, you know, I'm an empath.

always for sure, of course, that's just how I'm hardwired. But I'm not a codependent anymore, which is huge. And it's really hard to get there, but to the listeners, you certainly can. It just takes a little bit of hard work, but it's also important. It's like the airplane analogy that's like so cliche. So please forgive me. It's like, when the oxygen mask drops, right? You know, you maybe want to, but you have to, I mean, it's funny because I am, I'm so proud. I have two girls and I'm trying to get emotional. They're seven and five. I love them so much. I,

Jen (31:48)
Yes.

Shaun Zetlin (32:00)
I'm so proud that I'm a girl dad. I wouldn't have had it any other way. And I'm hands-on. I'm fortunate enough to run my business from home. And, you know, even if I do talks, I always try to make it home no matter who I am to really put one of them down. And I'm with them every night. And we say the same three things every night, which I think you're going to love. But before I tell you that, what I wanted to say to you is for me to be this hands-on dad, for me to be the best version of Shaun, I have to take care of myself. And for me, it's three things. It's meditation just for five minutes in the morning. I journal every night.

whether it's on the MacBook or my phone or a good old fashioned pen and paper, let's bring that back everyone. And then I have to work out, I have to move my body. And it doesn't have to be this like, boot camp, CrossFit workout. No, it just means some movement because that is what I need for my healing. For me, obviously things are very cellular. ⁓ But the three things I say to my girls every night, which I'm very proud to tell you. And it started with, if I don't say these things to them, because I had...

kindergarten teachers that were not kind to me and so forth. And I mentioned the counselors. That's why I bring this up to you. But if I don't say these things to them, somebody else is going to say it to them. And if somebody else says something to them that is not kind and polite or just heartwarming, they're going to believe a different belief system. And I don't want that to happen. Right? So the three things I say to them every night are, and I'm very polite about it, but I'll say, please tell me you're awesome.

and they'll say, I'm awesome. And I'll say, please tell me that you can do anything. And they'll say, I can do anything. And I'll say, please tell me you are worthy of everything. And they'll say, I'm worthy of everything. And we do it every night, whether I'm in my oldest daughter's room first or my youngest daughter's first, I know, make sure I say good night to both of them. We say these three things every night. We've been doing it now for two years. And I feel really good about that. I don't mean to be arrogant, but I say that because again, I just think about my...

My youngest daughter is in kindergarten and my kindergarten teacher pulled my ear and she was just like not a very kind woman and she was really rough and she scared me a lot of times and I never felt really safe in her classroom. And I just think about again, those moments I had and I didn't feel that I was awesome. I didn't feel that I was worthy, you when I was in her classroom and I want my girls again, knowing that they can do anything.

Jen (34:07)
Well, that's beautiful. And I hope that this can be something that parents can adopt and help their children as well with that. when I grew up, I was never told that I was loved. And I was always in fear. And I knew I had to change that for my children. And the things that I say to my kids every day is, I love you.

I have to say it every day, I love you. They're 21 and 18 now, but I still don't stop. I love you. And when they go out, it's be safe, take care of yourself. And the third, my son works overnights, my 21 year old works overnights and I always say, please drive safely. Because I worry about them in that way.

Shaun Zetlin (34:35)
I love it. It's wonderful.

Yes, yes.

Hell yeah.

Jen (34:54)
Those

are words, and I know they're very, very simple things, and I'm sure so many other people say these things to them, but from a place where I never heard these things, it means so much to me to do that for my children, to make that change, to get rid of that generational trauma. And I hope that others can feel as though they have that strength to also help.

our children, our next generation, right?

Shaun Zetlin (35:26)
Absolutely. And by the way, not only did you end generational trauma, which is so incredible, and there's not enough time to tell you, I mean, how amazing I think you are for that, honestly. But then you think about your two children, what you've given them verbally, it's a butterfly effect, right? What they attract.

Right? Because again, you were so kind to them. I know I mentioned this earlier about, you know, the hero and the villain. So let's say you weren't that type of mother. Then you were, not that I even want to put it out there, but you were somewhat different, of course. You get what I'm saying. I mean, if I was that type of father, this is how, you know, generational trauma keeps going because it doesn't just affect, you know, inner dynamics of the family, but it affects everyone around them and who they meet and how they affect, how these abusers affect other people. And so

feel like you and I are really doing our part there. And then the most important part is that children are innocent. Of course, every child is born innocent. And for them to be older now, certainly older than my girls, that's so beautiful because I think as everybody ages, as we all age, it's something you always want your parents to say. I mean, have clients that they're in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and they tell me what they wish they had from their parents. I I think about the most famous of people that...

I have come to enjoy either their music or their acting. And when I learn about some of them, it's fascinating to me. Like I'm a huge U2 fan and I love Bono and I saw Bono's one man show a couple of years ago. Now it's on Apple TV. But the point of that story is, is that here he is, Bono, a huge rock star, know, Billy Nellar, a rock star. I've been around for 40 years. His entire show, where most of it really centered around what he didn't get emotionally from his dad. And again, how his dad...

created so much pain in him as a child, but he thanked his dad because he said, if it wasn't for my dad, I wouldn't have had my voice, quote unquote, being a singer. So it's really interesting, right, that I think as we all age, it's something we all need to hear. So I think you're so beautiful to do that. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Jen (37:16)
Thank you so much.

So what happens when you get a new client?

Shaun Zetlin (37:22)
Ah, so, so because I'm remote these days, usually we do either a zoom or a FaceTime platform. And what I like to do early on is I like to ease a client in where we start first with the physical that's a bit more comfortable for me to talk about. I'll ask them first about their history on exercise. What is their relationship with exercise? That's the first thing. And then after that, I asked them what their goals are short term and long term.

And then the stuff that is really important, of course, you know, on a cellular level as well, where, you know, were there any prior injuries? Do you have any injuries now? Let's talk more about again, your time that you have to work out when you're outside of sessions with me, can you devote X amount of time? And then from there, I have to, because they're so connected and the mind body connection is so powerful, clearly, then we talk about the emotions. And so I usually, you know, start off with, you know, trying to say to them,

The subconscious is super powerful. It's where you make most of your decisions. It's where, you know, I made a decision to come on with you today during the subconscious. We all do that, right? And so for me, the biggest thing is I want to make sure somebody is not self sabotaging themselves. That to me is the biggest thing when it comes to fitness. And, know, I'll have clients say this to me where they've had a really hard day, right? So a client will get on the call and they'll say, a really, really hard day today. Maybe it's something with their job or their spouse or their children, something that's obviously in.

And they don't want to do a hard workout because life is already too hard, right? They don't want to do a challenging workout. And I told the respect that I'm always going to give the client what he or she wants clearly. But it's in those moments where I'll gently challenge them to say, this is when we need to do that hard workout. This is when we need to, again, meet the moment. And the reason why is because what I have found is if you do something that you didn't think you could do physically, then the emotion is really next in line.

Because as you know, logically, could say something, like logically, you and I could say, we could talk about our trauma all day, right? Logically, we could say, that would be, so my abuser did this to me, my abuser did this to me, and we're gonna have a lot of empathy for each other, and we're gonna be connected, of course. ⁓ The logic part is always the first part to just, again, come into fruition and come into acceptance, in other words. But the emotional piece, that's the piece that takes a while, because that's, again, where a lot of the pain lies, lot of the shame lies, a lot of discomfort lies, right?

And I'll say to clients when we're talking about their emotions for the first time, that anxiety and depression are a distraction from the root. And I'm really kind about that. So for me, I mentioned I was anxious for like 20 years. Well, Mary Ann would say, you weren't anxious at all. You're angry. You're enraged. You had to keep your emotions inside constantly. You were people pleaser to everyone. You kept bottling it down. Why are you so afraid of your own anger? Literally, that's she would say to me. Why are you of your own Why? Why?

And I'd say, well, it's really uncomfortable for me. Why is it uncomfortable for you? Why can't you get angry? You know, well then what if I'm not likable? What if I show anger? What if somebody doesn't like, are so worried about being loved and being good enough, being worthy enough, right? So I'll say to my clients, you know, if you're feeling anxiety and depression, you have to feel it. You can't go over it. You can't go under it. You've got to go through it. You've got to embrace it. You've got to make it your best friend. In other words, one of the analogies I'll use on this tour is it's almost like sticking your head down the dragon's mouth.

Well, what are we so afraid of? Well, I don't want to die. I don't want my head to be, I don't want to be decapitated. It's the obvious, right Shaun? Yeah, but are we really comfortable right here? Am I really comfortable with anxiety for 20 years, Jen? Am I really comfortable with that? No. I I allowed myself to live that way because it felt safe, right? That's how I created my safety. And I was in survival mode, which I know you can certainly agree with, right? I was in, and certainly understand. I was in survival mode for 20 years because anxiety wasn't the way I survived.

Okay, what's next? know, is somebody gonna bully me next? Am I gonna get hurt sexually next? Is somebody gonna like, you know, do something to me terribly? What's next, right? So I'm like, always on guard, right? Okay, well, that's amazing that I could survive and I'm proud to be a survivor, but that's not thriving. That's not authenticity. As I mentioned earlier, the goal is to be authentic, of course. So what I'll say with clients who are just starting out, you know, it's raw, it's painful and it's okay to feel that way. I think we're so...

Worried about being uncomfortable, but it's going to be uncomfortable before it gets better But you can't stay in the comfort of anxiety and depression anymore because you're never going to heal even though it feels comfortable so we need to get uncomfortable first and We have to get uncomfortable by facing, you know these demons head-on by putting you know your head through the dragon's mouth and You're not gonna get your head bitten off. I mean, it's probably gonna be stinking gross because it's dragon's mouth, right? Right. It's not gonna be the most pleasant in the world, but

The reason why use the dragon analogy is you're not going to die. You're not going to die. You're not. And I think it's so scary for people. That's why, you know, I'll work with a lot of addicts as well. And they're just, it's easier to abuse drugs and alcohol than it is to face these things. And I want to accept it then. want to face it that, you know, again, whatever it is that they, that what they went through. So I try to, again, it's a lot of information when I'm working with clients. have clients that are anxious and depressed. Most of my clients are trauma survivors. Of course, I think we all are to some degree.

clients that are former addicts, they're still battling addiction as well. My oldest client is 91, my youngest client is 18. So have a wide range of people, everyone of different fitness levels. And I love it. I I wrote about emotional fitness. feel like I know I'm meant to be. I I really do think acting was great for my confidence and acting was great, you know, at that time for me, you know, to sort of prove to myself that I wasn't like a shy, bully kid, that I could do these great things. But it wasn't my calling.

This is my calling. And I think as you and I share our stories and you and I hopefully can inspire just even one person, as I said earlier, it is all worth it because for me, I want people to not suffer when it comes to, again, their pains. I don't want people to feel that their bodies can't do what they want them to do. I get so excited when a client says to me, and I say this humbly as well again, and it's usually often we'll say, I think I could do that.

It's like, man, I live my life that way and I think I could physically be, you just did that. And then, you know, what happened is a client will say to me, my God, Shaun, she was, you know, he or she will say to me, my God, thank you. Like they'll thank me. And I'll say, no, no, I didn't do anything. You did it all. I'm just lucky enough to guide. And so then you mentioned intuition earlier and that's just it. I have to inspire each client differently because each client is going to be inspired by again, what drives and fuels them.

So I have to use my intuition. can't, you that's not my life. It's not nice. can imagine it's not my style to yell like some trainers may do, blah, blah, blah. But it is my intuition has to kick in of how is my tone or what words do I say? What are my mannerisms to try to influence that client and inspire that client to be their authentic self.

Jen (44:19)
That's great. It's refreshing the way that you go work with your clients. think it's incredible being able to bring both into the world together, to entwine them, because I don't think a lot of people believe that the physical and the mental are entwined in some ways, right?

So what would you say to someone who's on the fence, who is in the position you were in, 20 years of anxiety and needing to finally get out of that and become their authentic self?

Shaun Zetlin (44:58)
Well, I would say to them, that's a great question. I appreciate you asking that. I would say to them, I know it feels so scary, but you have to trust that the water on the other side is warm and loving and caring. Because I think again, it's so hard to leave your comfort zone for most of us, whether it's physical or mental or spiritual or emotional. These are really hard pillars to break because we're all hardwired and then we sort of identify ourselves with a belief system again that's not our own.

Like for instance, if a client has a eating disorder and I have a couple clients that do, I'll ask them, is your relationship with food based upon your relationship with food or is it based upon your parents' relationship with food? And if you're not sure, one of the things I have clients do, and I write about this in Emotional Fitness, I have all these very kind challenges where I'll say, please take a piece of paper and draw a straight line down the middle on the left side of the column.

I want you to think about, again, all of your belief systems when it comes to food. Like how does food make you feel? What are your favorite foods? Like everything you can think of when it comes to food. Then the other column, I want you to write what your parents taught you. And they're always different. They're never the same. It's really fascinating. I'll do that also when it comes to belief systems. So I'll say, like, so my parents, you know, let's say didn't like to travel, but I do. Okay, great. Can you dive into that? You know, your characteristics might have been different from your parents' characteristics.

You don't have to think or act or honor your parents by acting how they did. lot of clients get ⁓ really wrapped up into that where they feel like they have to honor their mom and dad by being like their mom and dad, which to me is really a criminal thing. No, again, you have to be your own self. And it's really important to see where to be an observer, right? And you can sit back and you can watch if they're still alive and you can take bits and pieces that you think are positive and negative, but you don't have to take everything and you're not them. So I know I find that very fascinating too.

The other thing I would say to somebody who's on the fence is you truly have nothing to lose because if you stay where you are, even though it feels comfortable, it's truly uncomfortable. And the scary thing is I'm usually what I get from somebody as I'm sure you've probably heard this as well as Bob, I don't know what I'm going to I don't want them to find, but I'll say to that particular client for me, usually change happens for two reasons. Like I would, I've worked with my clients and

When I was writing emotional fitness, I did a lot of interviewing with psychiatrists and psychologists throughout Brooklyn to get their take too. So was really fun to get their take doing the research. But people usually change for two reasons. One, they change because of fear and they change because of suffering. And you know, for me, I just didn't want to suffer anymore. For me, it was a ladder. I was done suffering. I didn't know what it was. I I thought it was anxiety. It wasn't sure. But I just knew I wasn't my present self, Jen. I want to be my present self. No, I want to be my present self. And it got to the point where

Jen (47:43)
Yes.

Shaun Zetlin (47:47)
When I was writing emotional fitness and I knew I okay here it comes I'm gonna publish it and this is hopefully gonna help one person That's the goal but then like all that fear went away because it became honestly bigger than me It wasn't just a book anymore. It was almost like my gift to my former self But then also it was a guide for Everybody else who might be suffering right now or everybody else who might have been bullied or everybody else has to reach their fitness goals or everybody else doesn't think they can do anything or everybody else who doesn't think their word their list goes on right

It didn't belong to me anymore. It wasn't my book anymore. It was like everybody else's book. And that's how I still view it. And so I would say to that particular person, again, you truly have nothing to lose. Nothing to lose.

Jen (48:27)
Again, so beautiful, so positive, and I love it. Absolutely love it. So where can we find you, Shaun?

Shaun Zetlin (48:36)
Okay, so you can find me at my website, which is www.zetlinfitness.com. So that's www.zetlinfitness.com. I'm on Instagram and Facebook under Shaun Zetlin and also zetlinfitness.com.

Jen (48:50)
And that'll all be in the show notes. So, and also a link to Shaun's book because I can't wait to read it now. I'm excited. Yay. Yes. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I truly appreciate it. You have so much sage wisdom.

Shaun Zetlin (48:59)
Thank you. It's very sweet. I'm honored. I'm nothing short of honored. Thank you.

Thank you, Jen, so much again. I'm super honored to be here.

Jen (49:14)
Thank you.

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (49:16)
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the podcast. This show is produced by Phoenix Freed LLC, and I'm your producer, Jen Ginty We hope you found today's conversation insightful and inspiring. If you have a story of your own about when a not yet moment became a right now, we encourage you to reach out and share it. You can find more information about being a guest on our show at whennotyetbecomesrightnow.com. Remember, you are not alone on your journey, whether it's a journey of healing,

growth or transformation. Every story matters. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time with another inspiring episode.