Reinventing Purpose: Navigating Life with Functional Neurological Disorder with Amy Cole

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (00:00)
Welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now, the podcast where we dive deep into the moments of transformation, the times when not yet shifts into right now and everything changes. I'm your host, Jen Ginty and this podcast is all about those pivotal moments in our life journeys. You know the ones, when the hesitation fades, when we take that first step, even if it feels like a leap. It's in these moments that growth and healing begins. Each episode will explore stories of resilience,

moments of clarity, and the sparks that ignite real change. From personal experiences to expert insights, we'll uncover how people navigate the complex journey we call life and come out stronger on the other side. Whether you're searching for that spark in your own life or just curious about how change unfolds for others, you're in the right place. We'll discuss the ups and downs, the breakthroughs and setbacks, and how to embrace the right now, even when it feels out of reach. Because sometimes,

The hardest part of the journey is realizing that the moment you've been waiting for has already arrived. So take a deep breath, settle in, and let's get started.

Jen (01:10)
Hello and welcome to When Not Yet Becomes Right Now. Today I have a wonderful guest Her name is Amy Cole, and Amy is a natural encourager and tech educator who spent 16 years as a web developer before life took an unexpected turn. When diagnosed with FND, functional neurological disorder, she was forced to close her business and reimagine her future. Through this challenging journey, Amy discovered her true calling.

helping business owners master their own technology with confidence. Amy's unique approach empowers entrepreneurs to save money, implement new ideas quickly, and maintain their authentic voice online. Drawing from both her technical expertise and personal resilience, she delivers a powerful message of hope, showing others how to balance self-care while continuing to serve others in meaningful ways. Welcome, Amy.

Amy Cole (02:04)
Thank you, it's so nice to be with you.

Jen (02:07)
Yes, thank you for being on the show. So let's get into it. What is your origin story?

Amy Cole (02:14)
well, there's a backstory and a regular story, but the first story is that I was a web developer and I was working and I had a really, really stressful day and things just were piling up and everything was due at the same time. And I had all these clients calling me saying, this is due, it's got to be done today. And this has to be done today.

And so like I would open a new tab and start working on a new thing without finishing the other thing that I had already started on and everything was urgent. And I had like three things I was launching that day and all these other things that were really urgent that had to be done. And I was just jumping from task to task to task. And I probably had a, like, you know, as many tabs as I could fit open on screen. And I was just as many on the other screen because I have like double monitor. so.

It was just kind of a crazy day and I was working and working and I love all my clients. And so it was kind of taking it extra personally. Like, if I don't get this done, this person is going to be in bad shape. and I cared about everybody, you know, like really deeply. And so by the end of the day, I realized I didn't remember anything I had done all day and I couldn't remember my husband's name and I couldn't remember my daughter's name.

and I couldn't really talk well or like things weren't making sense and just I couldn't think. It was really scary. So I started thinking, if I'm having a stroke? What else could be causing this? And so I looked in the mirror and I was like puffing up my cheeks and holding my hands up and putting them above my head and seeing if everything was even and there was no sign of stroke. And so I was like, well, that's weird. Maybe I'll just take a nap.

And when I wake up, things will be better and it's probably just too much stress. So I took a nap and when I woke up, I felt a little better, but not much. And then like the next day it was worse and worse and every day it got worse and worse. And so I went in and got an MRI, went to the emergency room and everybody was working me up and doing all these tests and it just didn't get better and nobody could find any answers of what was going on.

And even one day I went to the emergency room and they were like, well, here's a Tylenol for your headache, you know? And I was like, this is more than a headache. And it kept getting worse and I would get headaches in weird places and like I'd get a really sharp headache in one spot in my face and then my face would start twitching. And then I would get like these nerve pain, like

like ice pick headaches kind of, then I'd also get like really weird headaches where my just would hurt in different places. And it was very strange and my head would twitch to the left a lot and it just kept getting worse and worse to where I couldn't walk and my whole body was twitching and writhing and my brain wasn't working right and I couldn't think well and I was just desperate for answers.

And they wouldn't let me see the neurologist. My referrals kept getting rejected because I was too young. They said, well, you're not old enough to have Alzheimer's, so we can't help you. It's got to be something else. And so I was like, well, this is more than just forgetting things. Like my whole body is messed up and some things going on. So it was really awful. And so many times, like,

Jen (05:43)
Wow!

That's so dismissive.

Amy Cole (06:03)
people wouldn't call me back or follow up or find out if I was still having problems and I had to just keep chasing doctors down. know, like my only thing that was helping was to go to the emergency room over and over and it really wasn't helping because they didn't know what was going on and they're like, you're not dying, go home, you know. And finally, I talked to a doctor friend of mine and he said, call the neurologist every day, twice a day.

ask if they have any openings and try not to be annoying, just try to like have them be aware that you really want in. And so I did it. I called it twice a day, every day, like clockwork, you know, you have any openings? I'm not trying to be annoying. just want, you know, I just have no other options. I'm really scared. I had Googled like what else could be wrong, you know, and, and, uh,

found out there was this video that I had seen where this lady was moving with the same kind of jerky movement that I had and she was describing her symptoms and the progression and how fast things were progressing and it sounded exactly like what I had. And the bad thing was it was some disorder where there was no cure, there was no treatment, your brain slowly died.

you just forgot everybody and just lost control of your body and just pieces of your brain would die. And so I was like, oh great, this is what I have. And I wasn't prepared for it. My daughter is 17, still living at home. My husband and I have only been married for three years and I just wasn't ready to die.

It was very, very scary thing. Finally, the neurologist had a, like after a few days of me calling every single day, twice a day, they were like, this lady's not going to stop. So they got me in. Right, right. So, right. So they got me in and as soon as the neurologist saw me, he knew what was going on and he, he did some tests.

Jen (08:12)
Yeah. It's the only way, right? It's the only way that we can get attention.

Amy Cole (08:29)
figure it out and like make sure that what he thought was what was going on and he said we don't understand a lot about the brain but what we do understand is that this thing is very common among people who have had abuse in their past, trauma in their past and then they have a lot of stress and that

What it was called was functional neurological disorder, which I had never heard of, but the way he explained it. No, it wasn't the other one. I wasn't, I wasn't dying. Yeah. Yeah. So what he said was that, ⁓ like my brain had all these things that it was trying to hold back from my past, like all the bad things that had happened to me. And when I got into such a stressful situation, like I had at work.

Jen (09:01)
Okay, so it wasn't that other one. It wasn't the one that you found on Google. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you for that. Whoa. Yeah.

Amy Cole (09:27)
it just couldn't hold it back anymore and then started malfunctioning. And so that was why everything was going bad so quickly was because my brain didn't really know what to do and it was like really listening for whatever danger was around and trying to protect me from whatever was happening. And so it was such a relief knowing that I wasn't dying.

that all of a sudden all of my symptoms went away and immediately I felt better. My head felt calm. I hadn't been able to drive there because I was afraid like that I'd be twitching and weird and I could barely like walk, you know, and I couldn't think and my head hurt. So when he told me that everything went away, everything except for like a little bit of ringing in my ears and

a little bit of a headache. And then I drove home, I thought clearly I could walk smoothly, my head wasn't twitching. And I thought, oh, yay, I've been cured. I had this miracle, nothing is ever going to come back. I'm just great. But I was so scared to look it up because I was like, what if I learned that somebody else had it and that came back or that they had this symptom or that symptom and you know, and

So I just was like, I'm not even gonna look it up. I'm not even gonna, I'll just take this miracle and go on living my life. So that worked for about a few months. And then I could start feeling like my brain was getting tired and it felt like my head wanted to twitch sometimes, but like, I was just like, I don't want this to come back.

but I had a follow-up with the neurologist coming up and I was really scared. thought, what if I go back to the neurologist and then it all comes back? And so I kind of debated whether I wanted to keep that appointment or not, but I did. And I went and talked to him and he said, you you did really well putting this back together the first time. You'll probably be able to put it back again, you know, if it comes back. And it did. Like a few days later, I came back, I found out that

loud noise is one of my triggers and it came back. And so then I was not as scared when it came back again. Like I knew what I was doing with, I knew I wasn't dying and that these things were just my brains processing things wrong because you know, whatever the trauma and stress and so that I would just have a new thing in my life that I would have to deal with and that I would have to figure out like

how to live with this and how to make it work. And so now it just comes and goes. Like sometimes I will have days where I'm just fine and everything's normal and my brain's working great. And then sometimes I'll have days where I just really can't do much at all.

Jen (12:38)
the neurologist, he said that it had to do with trauma. And it sounds like hypervigilance and all the things that come with PTSD. Did the neurologist say to you, I think you should look into mental health counseling for this?

Amy Cole (12:42)
Right.

Right, yeah.

Right.

Yeah,

so at first they really just didn't tell me much at all except that I should see a psychiatrist with a PhD that kind of specializes in this kind of thing. And I just thought, well, I don't even want to do that. I just want to take this miracle and be happy. you know, so then when I went back, then they're like, okay, well, maybe it's time to take a look into some other things after it relapsed. Then I went back and they said, if you do a multi-

mention all approach like you can see a psychiatrist. They also have what's been helpful for me. haven't got into the psychiatrist yet because this is still kind of new for me. But the physical therapist that manages chronic pain was actually really helpful. And I wasn't even, I was having a good day when I went and saw him and he just sat and talked to me and my husband and like

educated us on how the brain works and how they think this disorder works and about like thresholds of pain and thresholds of stress and I don't know it just was kind of interesting and it helped a whole bunch just to get that education. And for me the trauma was like past marriages that had been bad like I had a really happy childhood everything was great but then I had some

really, really hard marriages and stuff with my children leaving and going to another house. And it was just, you know, a lot of traumatic stuff that was really hard to, hard to deal with. And so I've been stuffing it for years and years and years and years, you know, and then finally I'm feeling like, ⁓ maybe I got to deal with this. And that's why I loved the title of your show. thought, it's...

Jen (14:50)
Yeah!

Amy Cole (14:54)
Yeah, it's definitely right now.

Jen (14:56)
Well, this

is so interesting because you said that the neurologist said that it was common and I've never heard of it before. Right? And I'm very much in the PTSD trauma world at this point and have never run into this disorder. So I'd love if you could just give a little bit more information for, yeah.

Amy Cole (15:03)
Right, yeah, I never heard of it either. Yeah, what is...

Right.

Yes, from what I understand

about it, and I'm still not an expert at by far because I just started researching it recently. It's not a hardware problem, meaning there's nothing physically wrong with your brain. It's a software problem. it's what he said was it's where your neurological and psychological meet and create like a

your brain doesn't process information correctly coming in and going out. So like the signals coming in and the signals going out are mixed up and not processing correctly. And so they also said it's like turning up the gain on a microphone and getting feedback. it's that's why there's a lot of the sensory overload stuff.

kind of like I had an actual head injury a long time ago, about 30 years ago in a car accident. And it felt a lot the same with like the bright lights and the loud noises feel like too stimulating. Yeah. So he said it's kind of like the brain gets turned up with like the gain on a microphone where it's super sensitive and all that stuff is just

Jen (16:28)
So like a concussion.

Amy Cole (16:40)
so stimulating and so oversensitive because it's listening for that danger and trying to find out what it is. Like it just gets really prickly and listening super carefully kind of it's like just PTSD in your brain. I don't know how to explain it but

Jen (16:59)
You know, when you were first talking about the day that you were having and that you were just starting to forget everything that had happened, I at first thought, well, was she dissociating? And I wonder, it, it sounds like after you've talked more about it, that it's the absolute opposite because it's keeping you in your brain, but it's not allowing you to, I don't know, listen to the outside world.

Amy Cole (17:22)
It's just so weird and right

and it affects people differently. Some people are not able to speak when they get this. Some people are not able to walk. Some people are not like they'll get really bad migraines and headaches and some people get tics and twitches. Some people have seizures. Some people have like

just strange things. There was one gal that said she breaks into a strange accent, which, and I was just like, well, know, I guess everybody gets hit differently. Language, yeah. Well, and with me, sometimes I'll get word salad and a lot of times it'll be where I'll recognize somebody and then 20,

Jen (18:01)
Wow.

So it affected her language center.

Amy Cole (18:23)
of the wrong words come to my brain of what their name is. But it's, I know they're not the right words, but it's so frustrating because all these things are hitting me like they're the wrong words. I don't, I know this person, but I can't think of their name, you know? And, and that happens a lot more the first time it happened. That was happening to me a lot, but this time it's not been so much of that. It's been more just a muscle-y.

jerky thing and sometimes my head will feel like drunk or confused and like it's like sort of hard to talk and hard to think sometimes and and I'll feel it like coming in my brain before it hits to my my movement but kind of like can feel it coming yeah

Jen (19:18)
So you're aware of it.

Okay. Huh.

Amy Cole (19:22)
But then

sometimes it'll be where I can't walk right or my legs just won't work first or my gait will be really over exaggerated. And then all of sudden, it'll be okay. And some people that have a hard time walking are able to run, which is really weird. yeah, it's like your brain just misfires and processes things all crazy.

Jen (19:41)
This is like a mishmash of...

Amy Cole (19:51)
Sometimes it's good and sometimes it goes away and sometimes it comes back and your triggers change. like, I noticed sometimes I'll be talking to somebody and it's somebody I like, but it's somebody that was my friend or something when I was going through trauma. And then there'll be a trigger like

All of a sudden my head's jerking and I'm having a hard time thinking and my headache comes back and I can't talk right. It's just like, I like this person. Why are they a trigger?

Jen (20:29)
Right, right. Our brains just work so unknown. They're just, they're unknown territory. So you realized that this was going to affect what you do as a profession.

Amy Cole (20:35)
Right, Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. So I couldn't work on the computer anymore. For a long time, I couldn't even look at the computer because I was just afraid of the stress that had caused all this and I didn't want to have it come back and it hurt my head physically to look at the screen. And so now on good days, I can be at the computer for a little while. Like right now I'm okay, but I can feel it like starting to kind of

like get a little achy and weird and I'm like, okay, this isn't going to be a good long time that I'll be here. But I set timers and I say, you know, half an hour is my limit today. Or if I feel triggered before that, I'll turn it off and get done. But if I am able to stop it before it gets out of hand, before it cycles into that twitching and hurting, then I can...

do a little bit more of a balance with my activity level and my triggers. But I had to close my business. I got rid of all of my clients and that was so hard. Yeah.

Jen (21:59)
That is hard. I understand that. It's

almost like losing an identity.

Amy Cole (22:05)
It was. And so I started thinking like, what can I do? You know, I felt like I've given, I've been given a new chance. You know, I had this miracle recovery where I felt all better and then I didn't know what I could do. I was like, I have no business. I have nothing that I can do for a living. And I have been such a big part of our family's income for so long, you know, and then all of a sudden to lose all of that and to try to

Jen (22:06)
Yeah.

Amy Cole (22:33)
figure out, what is it that I'm supposed to do? What is it that I need to do? How can I impact the world? How can I help provide for my family? How can I still be a contributing part of the world when I felt so broken, you know? And I don't know, there's just, it made me think, okay, am I gonna be a victim? Am I gonna be somebody who's just working on...

trying to live with all these limitations or am I going to celebrate the things I can still do and try to give back to the world? And I decided I didn't want to be a victim. I wanted to be a contributor. And I have a lot of gifts and light. And I feel like there's things that I have that can help people.

I think everybody does. I think everybody has something amazing that they can help people with. So I felt like I just needed to figure out how to do that.

Jen (23:39)
It sounds like you had to create a lot of boundaries. And people who have had trauma, that is really difficult. I know it's always been for me because I didn't know boundaries back when I was a child. And even now, I have to remind myself that there are boundaries that I have to put on my children and people that I know and love. And I can imagine that if boundaries were difficult for you back

Amy Cole (23:43)
Yeah.

Jen (24:09)
when you were in trauma that it must have been something new you had to deal with.

Amy Cole (24:15)
Yeah. Yeah, it's been really hard to learn. Just, I don't know, there's a lot of new things in life, you know, like a lot of, a lot of new ways to balance, a lot of triggers to avoid, a lot of different ways to show up in the world, you know, like if I'm jerking all over the place and...

You know, that's a different thing that I've never had to deal with before. I've always thought two things that would be really hard in life would be to talk different or to walk different. And now I'm kind of doing both, you know, there's, there's times when I just have to suck it up and, not worry about what people think, you know, just, just keep going.

Jen (25:12)
I can imagine it was very much of a learning curve for you.

Amy Cole (25:17)
Yeah, yeah and it still is. Like I'm still figuring things out, still exploring my limits and pushing through them.

Jen (25:29)
Did the neurologist tell you about the future? No, okay.

Amy Cole (25:33)
No,

no, I've kind of had to figure this out on my own, like, and for everybody, it's different. Some people are able to go into remission and just try to avoid their triggers and, and live almost normal. But for a lot of people is debilitating for years and years, you know,

So I'm hoping that I'm in the category that I can kind of push through and but it's not like you get to choose all of those things because kind of a lot of it is just random and you even though you're avoiding your triggers you may still have episodes of things that really don't make sense of why they're happening.

And a lot of times you can push through things that you think are triggers and be okay.

Jen (26:35)
Well, you know,

our subconscious can show up and give us anything they want to give us, right?

Amy Cole (26:40)
Right,

right. And it is just such an interesting thing to be learning about. But I feel like it's really teaching me a lot. You know, it's teaching me to slow down for one thing, which is something I never did before, because I was always go, go, go, go, get everything done and be the best and do the best. And now I'm having to just take naps and

one of the big things that helps me the most is working in my garden. And so like, I'll be out with my little plants and digging in the dirt and petting the cat and you know, just being out in the sun and those are wonderful things, you know, and I wasn't taking time to do those things before I was like always at the computer working, working, working. So it's really been kind of a good thing, actually.

Jen (27:25)
That sounds wonderful. Yeah.

Amy Cole (27:38)
Even though it's been a hard thing, it's been teaching me good things.

Jen (27:44)
I can see that because when I'm in triggers or I'm feeling negatively or I don't want to sit with uncomfortable feelings, I immediately go and start to work. I'll just switch off what I'm thinking and I will go and do as much work as I possibly can to avoid feeling that feeling. So this is kind of like, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, you have to.

Amy Cole (27:45)
Yeah.

Right.

Jen (28:13)
deal with this. You have to sit back and you have to feel those feelings. You can't push yourself out of this.

Amy Cole (28:14)
Right.

Yeah, no.

Well, and sometimes like things will just come to the surface and bubble through and as I'm working through this, I'll just take the time to recognize a feeling that's coming up and say, Hey, I'm really sad today because I never cried about this thing and I just need to cry about it.

And my daughter came up to me the other day and she was like, why are you crying mom? And I'm like, it's a sad day. just, I'm just sad about this because I was never sad about it. And I need to be, and I just need to let it out and be sad about it. And I'm like, I'll be okay tomorrow, but today I just need to feel sad about this.

Jen (29:03)
Yeah, and I try to always tell myself this too shall pass with feelings, with especially sadness. Sadness is the worst feeling to sit with.

Amy Cole (29:07)
Yeah.

Well then for so

many years I was on these crazy drugs because they misdiagnosed me with bipolar disorder and it was actually PTSD. And so I was on these medicines that were really numbing, you know, and I wouldn't, I couldn't cry. I couldn't feel. And so there's a lot of stuff stuffed in there that I got to let out. But I think crying is really healthy, like really, really cleansing. Yeah.

Jen (29:34)
Yeah!

It 100 % is healthy. It's

what we're supposed to do. Emotions are valid, especially sadness, and we just don't want to sit with it because it's just so uncomfortable. But this has given you a new vision on how you need to approach your emotions, right?

Amy Cole (29:44)
Right.

Right. Right, yeah.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Well, and how I can help support other people too. Like I used to tell my kids, don't cry. It's okay. You know, and now I'm just like, you just cry, get it out, let it be. It's okay to cry. I'm here for you. If you want to cry, you know, let's talk through this. And, it's such a different thing for me to just be okay with that. Like, you know,

Jen (30:21)
It's making me have shivers because I want to be able to do that and I'm working on it, but you've given me a new outlook on it actually. That yeah, I really do need to stop going to the computer, stop pushing myself into doing all of this work just because there's an emotion in the back of my mind that wants to like rear its ugly head at me and I have to deal with that.

Amy Cole (30:41)
Yeah.

Yeah. When sometimes just in tiny little bits, you know, you don't have to let it be like this huge thing, just, you know, just like acknowledging something was said or something was bad or something wasn't fair or, you know, but, also rejoicing in the sunshine and finding beauty and gratitude and everything that is beautiful and

wonderful around you. know, like, yes, that was sad. And there's sunshine and there are rainbows and there's a kitty cat and there's clouds and you know, and you know, just finding the beauty and the love and, and knowing that yes, there is terrible stuff that, that we've gone through and that was sad, but, and there are wonderful things all around us today. So

Jen (31:32)
Mm-hmm.

That's gold.

Amy Cole (31:49)
I don't know, it doesn't have to just be all traumatic and awful, but just letting yourself feel, you know, that's a big deal.

Jen (31:53)
No.

It really is. And so you decided after closing down your business that you'd worked so hard through all these years, what was the next step for you?

Amy Cole (32:10)
So I have all these skills and I felt like I can still help the world. There are people who can learn from me and I can help people who are afraid of the things that I'm good at. So there's a lot of people in business who are afraid of technology and I happen to be very good at understanding it because it was kind of something I...

had to do for 16 years as a web developer, you know, and I learned that on my own in a world where it was not very easy to learn. But I feel like I didn't realize what an expert I was until I tried to close my business and find a replacement for me, for everybody that was, you know, all of my old clients were like, we can't find anybody that can do what you did. And, and it made me realize like, I really was.

good at it and I really had something that was valuable and important. And I noticed that the people that were working with me that were really successful as opposed to the people that were really struggling were the people that really understood a little of how to do their own technology stuff. they would work with me in a different way. They would take like, it was not like they were handing off tasks to me. They were kind of working next to me saying,

Hey, I came up with this idea. want here's what I came up with. Here's what I built. I want you to make it beautiful. Or, you know, I came up with this email. Here's who I want it to go to. This is the segment. And they understood like their business and how, how the things were set up and how the technology was running. Not that they were always doing it themselves, but they were not afraid to get in and try making a change, you know, so.

Jen (34:04)
and you

were there to teach them.

Amy Cole (34:06)
Right. Well, and so then I felt like, there's all these other people that I know from working with that have the ability to do these things. They're smart enough. They're just afraid, you know? And so I felt like this is a place where I could really make a difference. So I'm helping people. We have like these tech tea parties.

So they're like, not even scary. You know, we just have a little get together with a few people online and we just talk about what it is they're having trouble with. And we work through it together. And so it's like this free service that I do to help people. And then I also have workshops and things where we're starting one soon where it's going to be six people doing a workshop, making a website together, you know, where we walk people through.

all this like eight weeks of making our websites. And then, you know, it's just really, it's, it's called cottage coder because it's, you know, kind of like a little, it feels like making a garden, you know, like it's just really natural, really easy, not techie, but more hand holding through helping people learn about those. So that can be successful, but

Jen (35:28)
Yeah. And tell us where we can find you.

Amy Cole (35:33)
go to cottagecoder.com and the tea parties are always listed there. We're having them every week so it's easy to join, super fun and it's a really nice community of people that are showing up and very caring, good community.

Jen (35:56)
And one last question for you. With what you've gone through with finding out about this neurological disorder and the way that you had to handle it, what would you tell someone who is feeling like they have these same kind of symptoms? What would you offer as advice to them?

Amy Cole (36:19)
I would say, don't be afraid to look it up. Don't be afraid to be your own advocate with your doctors and talk to a neurologist because they can tell if it is physical or functional. And just knowing that it's not killing you is a big deal, you know, because we worry and we think, I've got this rare disease and now I'm going to die.

And you know, and we go down these just really scary things. And if your brain believes that it's going to make that happen. you like your brain is super powerful and no Google's not your doctor. but, but understanding does give you more comfort and more understanding when it's the right information and not just hyper crazy stuff. So talk to.

Jen (36:59)
Google is not your doctor.

Amy Cole (37:17)
neurologists get tested if this is something you feel like you have. Also the people that do chronic pain management are very closely related to the functional neurological disorder field because it is both like having to deal with your brain processing things wrong and sending weird messages and the thresholds you know you can calm that down.

with similar techniques. even if there's not an FND specialist, there's also other people that can help out. And it's all your brain is related, know, one organ. So anyway.

Jen (37:58)
Yeah, the crazy thing that it is. Well, thank you

so much, Amy, for coming on the show. You gave us so much incredible information and wisdom. And I'm so excited for what you're doing in the future. And right now, it sounds like a wonderful way to learn how to run your own business, too.

Amy Cole (38:12)
Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah,

well, and it's fun for me because I really get to still connect with the people that are so important to me, but it's in a much less stressful way. it works for me and works for them. Anyway, thank you so much. It's been so nice to talk to you.

Jen (38:39)
That's great. Well, thank you again. Yes.

Thank you. You too.

When Not Yet Becomes Right Now (38:49)
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the podcast. This show is produced by Phoenix Freed LLC, and I'm your producer, Jen Ginty We hope you found today's conversation insightful and inspiring. If you have a story of your own about when a not yet moment became a right now, we encourage you to reach out and share it. You can find more information about being a guest on our show at whennotyetbecomesrightnow.com. Remember, you are not alone on your journey, whether it's a journey of healing,

growth or transformation. Every story matters. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time with another inspiring episode.